The car knows best ....
 

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm

Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
grave !

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot less
vehicles on the road (just call it population control).



On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:

>>http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>>
>>Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
>>grave !
>>
>>Dave Milne, Scotland
>>'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot less
vehicles on the road (just call it population control).



On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:

>>http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>>
>>Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
>>grave !
>>
>>Dave Milne, Scotland
>>'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot less
vehicles on the road (just call it population control).



On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote:

>>http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>>
>>Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
>>grave !
>>
>>Dave Milne, Scotland
>>'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Dave Milne did pass the time by typing:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
> grave !

I dunno.. antiroll (stability control) is pretty nifty on the BMW X5.
You can just brainlessly press it into a corner with zero skill. But
it won't do beans all if you put it into a ditch or the other lane of
traffic. Given the depths of stupidity drivers today seem to plumb I
actually like the idea.

At least with most systems there is an on/off switch.
Just thinking what would happen if you mixed stability control
and off roading. Probably similar to ABS related loss of control.

--
DougW

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Dave Milne did pass the time by typing:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
> grave !

I dunno.. antiroll (stability control) is pretty nifty on the BMW X5.
You can just brainlessly press it into a corner with zero skill. But
it won't do beans all if you put it into a ditch or the other lane of
traffic. Given the depths of stupidity drivers today seem to plumb I
actually like the idea.

At least with most systems there is an on/off switch.
Just thinking what would happen if you mixed stability control
and off roading. Probably similar to ABS related loss of control.

--
DougW

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Dave Milne did pass the time by typing:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in his
> grave !

I dunno.. antiroll (stability control) is pretty nifty on the BMW X5.
You can just brainlessly press it into a corner with zero skill. But
it won't do beans all if you put it into a ditch or the other lane of
traffic. Given the depths of stupidity drivers today seem to plumb I
actually like the idea.

At least with most systems there is an on/off switch.
Just thinking what would happen if you mixed stability control
and off roading. Probably similar to ABS related loss of control.

--
DougW

Re: The car knows best ....
 

> Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot
> less
> vehicles on the road (just call it population control).

I kinda wish they would stop plowing and sanding the roads here in winter.
It would stop the migration uphill, and only those who are prepared would be
out in a snow.

--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Re: The car knows best ....
 

> Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot
> less
> vehicles on the road (just call it population control).

I kinda wish they would stop plowing and sanding the roads here in winter.
It would stop the migration uphill, and only those who are prepared would be
out in a snow.

--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Re: The car knows best ....
 

> Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot
> less
> vehicles on the road (just call it population control).

I kinda wish they would stop plowing and sanding the roads here in winter.
It would stop the migration uphill, and only those who are prepared would be
out in a snow.

--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California

Re: The car knows best ....
 

I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle. Slow down.
SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
> his
> grave !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle. Slow down.
SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
> his
> grave !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle. Slow down.
SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
> his
> grave !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Let's get one of those new Wranglers with that system installed and
rockcrawl with it ...once it starts to tip I think that stability mechanism
might actually get you into alot of trouble. I didn't take the time to read
the whole article so I could be wrong ...or maybe there's a way to turn it
off, but I wouldn't want it trying to correct my driving on the side of a
hill/rock.

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
his
> grave !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Let's get one of those new Wranglers with that system installed and
rockcrawl with it ...once it starts to tip I think that stability mechanism
might actually get you into alot of trouble. I didn't take the time to read
the whole article so I could be wrong ...or maybe there's a way to turn it
off, but I wouldn't want it trying to correct my driving on the side of a
hill/rock.

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
his
> grave !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Let's get one of those new Wranglers with that system installed and
rockcrawl with it ...once it starts to tip I think that stability mechanism
might actually get you into alot of trouble. I didn't take the time to read
the whole article so I could be wrong ...or maybe there's a way to turn it
off, but I wouldn't want it trying to correct my driving on the side of a
hill/rock.

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
>
> Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
his
> grave !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Exactly, and the computer is in our skulls. I'd rather they spent the money
on better axles etc.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Rusted" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:6kXnd.189$YU.46@fe52.usenetserver.com...
> I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle. Slow
down.
> SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
> had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> > http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
> >
> > Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
> > his
> > grave !
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Exactly, and the computer is in our skulls. I'd rather they spent the money
on better axles etc.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Rusted" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:6kXnd.189$YU.46@fe52.usenetserver.com...
> I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle. Slow
down.
> SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
> had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> > http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
> >
> > Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
> > his
> > grave !
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Exactly, and the computer is in our skulls. I'd rather they spent the money
on better axles etc.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Rusted" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:6kXnd.189$YU.46@fe52.usenetserver.com...
> I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle. Slow
down.
> SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
> had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:TeTnd.19382$up1.732@text.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> > http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
> >
> > Anti roll over systems are coming our way .. Darwin would be rolling in
> > his
> > grave !
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Paul Calman proclaimed:

>>Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot
>>less
>>vehicles on the road (just call it population control).
>
>
> I kinda wish they would stop plowing and sanding the roads here in winter.
> It would stop the migration uphill, and only those who are prepared would be
> out in a snow.
>
Early in the days of air bags, Brock Yates suggested that rather than
an air bag, each vehicle should be equipped with a shotgun barrel in
the steering wheel column, aimed, cocked, and loaded, then use the
air bag impact sensor to perform a darwinian extraction of yet another
incompetent driver.

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Paul Calman proclaimed:

>>Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot
>>less
>>vehicles on the road (just call it population control).
>
>
> I kinda wish they would stop plowing and sanding the roads here in winter.
> It would stop the migration uphill, and only those who are prepared would be
> out in a snow.
>
Early in the days of air bags, Brock Yates suggested that rather than
an air bag, each vehicle should be equipped with a shotgun barrel in
the steering wheel column, aimed, cocked, and loaded, then use the
air bag impact sensor to perform a darwinian extraction of yet another
incompetent driver.

Re: The car knows best ....
 

Paul Calman proclaimed:

>>Ya know, if they took off a lot of the safety stuff there would be a lot
>>less
>>vehicles on the road (just call it population control).
>
>
> I kinda wish they would stop plowing and sanding the roads here in winter.
> It would stop the migration uphill, and only those who are prepared would be
> out in a snow.
>
Early in the days of air bags, Brock Yates suggested that rather than
an air bag, each vehicle should be equipped with a shotgun barrel in
the steering wheel column, aimed, cocked, and loaded, then use the
air bag impact sensor to perform a darwinian extraction of yet another
incompetent driver.

Re: The car knows best ....
 

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:19:30 -0700, Rusted wrote:
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote :
>>
>> Anti roll over systems are coming our way
> I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle.

Exactly!

> Slow down.
> SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
> had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?

I don't know, but my BroncoII never rolled, even when I would stomp on
the brakes to skid through a snow-covered turn (not in traffic, just
by myself).

-D

--
\begin{humor}
Disclaimer:
If I receive a message from you, you are agreeing that:
1. I am by definition, "the intended recipient"
2. All information in the email is mine to do with as I see fit and make
such financial profit, political mileage, or good joke as it lends
itself to. In particular, I may quote it on USENET or the WWW.
3. I may take the contents as representing the views of your company.
4. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may
be included on your message
\end{humor}

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Re: The car knows best ....
 

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, Dave Milne wrote:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm

I'll have to hurry and buy myself a Wrangler before its too late!

"Models in the current lineup that offer stability control include
the Jeep Wrangler"

Does this mean that the '05 Wranglers are already ruined by this? =p


Just the other night I saw this statement about new automotive
features:

"Automatic braking will add power to the brakes when it sense you
are not applying enough brake pressure to make the stop"

How is the car going to read my mind to know just how soon I want to
stop? I'll push the pedal just as hard, or soft, as I want, thank you
very much.

-D

--
Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;
through the fear of the Lord a man avoids evil.
Proverbs 16:6

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Re: The car knows best ....
 

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:19:30 -0700, Rusted wrote:
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote :
>>
>> Anti roll over systems are coming our way
> I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle.

Exactly!

> Slow down.
> SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
> had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?

I don't know, but my BroncoII never rolled, even when I would stomp on
the brakes to skid through a snow-covered turn (not in traffic, just
by myself).

-D

--
\begin{humor}
Disclaimer:
If I receive a message from you, you are agreeing that:
1. I am by definition, "the intended recipient"
2. All information in the email is mine to do with as I see fit and make
such financial profit, political mileage, or good joke as it lends
itself to. In particular, I may quote it on USENET or the WWW.
3. I may take the contents as representing the views of your company.
4. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may
be included on your message
\end{humor}

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Re: The car knows best ....
 

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:19:30 -0700, Rusted wrote:
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote :
>>
>> Anti roll over systems are coming our way
> I have one of those in my 83 CJ, it is the pedal in the middle.

Exactly!

> Slow down.
> SUV's have been rolling over ever since they were attached to a horse and
> had wooden spokes. How come people are just figuring that out now?

I don't know, but my BroncoII never rolled, even when I would stomp on
the brakes to skid through a snow-covered turn (not in traffic, just
by myself).

-D

--
\begin{humor}
Disclaimer:
If I receive a message from you, you are agreeing that:
1. I am by definition, "the intended recipient"
2. All information in the email is mine to do with as I see fit and make
such financial profit, political mileage, or good joke as it lends
itself to. In particular, I may quote it on USENET or the WWW.
3. I may take the contents as representing the views of your company.
4. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may
be included on your message
\end{humor}

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Re: The car knows best ....
 

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, Dave Milne wrote:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm

I'll have to hurry and buy myself a Wrangler before its too late!

"Models in the current lineup that offer stability control include
the Jeep Wrangler"

Does this mean that the '05 Wranglers are already ruined by this? =p


Just the other night I saw this statement about new automotive
features:

"Automatic braking will add power to the brakes when it sense you
are not applying enough brake pressure to make the stop"

How is the car going to read my mind to know just how soon I want to
stop? I'll push the pedal just as hard, or soft, as I want, thank you
very much.

-D

--
Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;
through the fear of the Lord a man avoids evil.
Proverbs 16:6

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Re: The car knows best ....
 

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, Dave Milne wrote:
> http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm

I'll have to hurry and buy myself a Wrangler before its too late!

"Models in the current lineup that offer stability control include
the Jeep Wrangler"

Does this mean that the '05 Wranglers are already ruined by this? =p


Just the other night I saw this statement about new automotive
features:

"Automatic braking will add power to the brakes when it sense you
are not applying enough brake pressure to make the stop"

How is the car going to read my mind to know just how soon I want to
stop? I'll push the pedal just as hard, or soft, as I want, thank you
very much.

-D

--
Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;
through the fear of the Lord a man avoids evil.
Proverbs 16:6

www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/ jabber: dman@dman13.dyndns.org

Re: The car knows best ....
 

> Just the other night I saw this statement about new automotive
> features:
>
> "Automatic braking will add power to the brakes when it sense you
> are not applying enough brake pressure to make the stop"

That could be the most lethal thing ever, especially anywhere where there is
significant snowfall. Up here in the prairies of Canada, if my car tries to
slam on the brakes on ice I might as well enjoy the life flashing before my
eyes cuz I'm a goner. Computers are a long way from being even remotely as
sophisticated as our brains ...let human judgement exercise the most control
and allow safety "features", such as air bags and seat belts, to help us out
when our brains fail.

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

Re: The car knows best ....
 

> Just the other night I saw this statement about new automotive
> features:
>
> "Automatic braking will add power to the brakes when it sense you
> are not applying enough brake pressure to make the stop"

That could be the most lethal thing ever, especially anywhere where there is
significant snowfall. Up here in the prairies of Canada, if my car tries to
slam on the brakes on ice I might as well enjoy the life flashing before my
eyes cuz I'm a goner. Computers are a long way from being even remotely as
sophisticated as our brains ...let human judgement exercise the most control
and allow safety "features", such as air bags and seat belts, to help us out
when our brains fail.

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

Re: The car knows best ....
 

> Just the other night I saw this statement about new automotive
> features:
>
> "Automatic braking will add power to the brakes when it sense you
> are not applying enough brake pressure to make the stop"

That could be the most lethal thing ever, especially anywhere where there is
significant snowfall. Up here in the prairies of Canada, if my car tries to
slam on the brakes on ice I might as well enjoy the life flashing before my
eyes cuz I'm a goner. Computers are a long way from being even remotely as
sophisticated as our brains ...let human judgement exercise the most control
and allow safety "features", such as air bags and seat belts, to help us out
when our brains fail.

--
griffin
'85 Jeep CJ-7
'97 Toyota Corolla SD

Re: The car knows best ....
 

This is something Mercedes dreamed up a few years ago. They did a study, and
found that most people don't press the brake pedal hard enough during an
emergency stop. So they programmed in a few parameters to take a wild guess
on whether you are doing an emergency stop, so it can take over and do a
better one, surprising both yourself and the man behind probably.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Derrick Hudson" <dman@dman13.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:8qga72-lgo.ln1@dman13.dyndns.org...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, Dave Milne wrote:
> > http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
> How is the car going to read my mind to know just how soon I want to
> stop? I'll push the pedal just as hard, or soft, as I want, thank you
> very much.

Re: The car knows best ....
 

This is something Mercedes dreamed up a few years ago. They did a study, and
found that most people don't press the brake pedal hard enough during an
emergency stop. So they programmed in a few parameters to take a wild guess
on whether you are doing an emergency stop, so it can take over and do a
better one, surprising both yourself and the man behind probably.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Derrick Hudson" <dman@dman13.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:8qga72-lgo.ln1@dman13.dyndns.org...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, Dave Milne wrote:
> > http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
> How is the car going to read my mind to know just how soon I want to
> stop? I'll push the pedal just as hard, or soft, as I want, thank you
> very much.

Re: The car knows best ....
 

This is something Mercedes dreamed up a few years ago. They did a study, and
found that most people don't press the brake pedal hard enough during an
emergency stop. So they programmed in a few parameters to take a wild guess
on whether you are doing an emergency stop, so it can take over and do a
better one, surprising both yourself and the man behind probably.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Derrick Hudson" <dman@dman13.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:8qga72-lgo.ln1@dman13.dyndns.org...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:40:51 GMT, Dave Milne wrote:
> > http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...0/B01-9872.htm
> How is the car going to read my mind to know just how soon I want to
> stop? I'll push the pedal just as hard, or soft, as I want, thank you
> very much.