Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote in message news:<396934ff.0410180725.3ee0b8c4@posting.google. com>...
> I have read a few threads on canoe tiedowns and still do not have a
> highly secure method for ensuring the boat does not fly off the roof.
> I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2004 with factory installed roof rack and
> crossbars. I do not have a hitch behind. I want to tie down the canoe
> at the bow and stern - I do not want to take a change with just the
> roof rack. The bumpers are part of the body with no gap, so tying the
> rope around the bumper is not possible. In the front, I do not wish to
> tie to the radiator, or the hood latch because these are not sturdy
> enough. In the back, I do not see any suitable anchor.
>
> Where can the rope be tied to the front and back of the Jeep? Any
> simple bolts or such which can be purchased to serve as anchor points?
> Any other ideas?
>
> Thank you.

Interesting, though unsatisfactory responses:

Mike Romain: I would not trust hooks on a long haul because the canoe
can move or settle causing the hook to come off.

Steve: Grommets reduce the rope strengths significantly.

John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
roof racks in expensive. Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
streamlined as the factory racks. I had Yakima racks for my
(now-disposed) Ford Taurus - I still used rope to tiedown the canoe
fore and aft with the radiator and such. John, I use club canoes
belonging to the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Jersey/New York,
though I plan to buy my own canoe.

I am going to try mounting bolts at judicious locations in the front
and back.

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote in message news:<396934ff.0410180725.3ee0b8c4@posting.google. com>...
> I have read a few threads on canoe tiedowns and still do not have a
> highly secure method for ensuring the boat does not fly off the roof.
> I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2004 with factory installed roof rack and
> crossbars. I do not have a hitch behind. I want to tie down the canoe
> at the bow and stern - I do not want to take a change with just the
> roof rack. The bumpers are part of the body with no gap, so tying the
> rope around the bumper is not possible. In the front, I do not wish to
> tie to the radiator, or the hood latch because these are not sturdy
> enough. In the back, I do not see any suitable anchor.
>
> Where can the rope be tied to the front and back of the Jeep? Any
> simple bolts or such which can be purchased to serve as anchor points?
> Any other ideas?
>
> Thank you.

Interesting, though unsatisfactory responses:

Mike Romain: I would not trust hooks on a long haul because the canoe
can move or settle causing the hook to come off.

Steve: Grommets reduce the rope strengths significantly.

John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
roof racks in expensive. Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
streamlined as the factory racks. I had Yakima racks for my
(now-disposed) Ford Taurus - I still used rope to tiedown the canoe
fore and aft with the radiator and such. John, I use club canoes
belonging to the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Jersey/New York,
though I plan to buy my own canoe.

I am going to try mounting bolts at judicious locations in the front
and back.

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote in message news:<396934ff.0410180725.3ee0b8c4@posting.google. com>...
> I have read a few threads on canoe tiedowns and still do not have a
> highly secure method for ensuring the boat does not fly off the roof.
> I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2004 with factory installed roof rack and
> crossbars. I do not have a hitch behind. I want to tie down the canoe
> at the bow and stern - I do not want to take a change with just the
> roof rack. The bumpers are part of the body with no gap, so tying the
> rope around the bumper is not possible. In the front, I do not wish to
> tie to the radiator, or the hood latch because these are not sturdy
> enough. In the back, I do not see any suitable anchor.
>
> Where can the rope be tied to the front and back of the Jeep? Any
> simple bolts or such which can be purchased to serve as anchor points?
> Any other ideas?
>
> Thank you.

Interesting, though unsatisfactory responses:

Mike Romain: I would not trust hooks on a long haul because the canoe
can move or settle causing the hook to come off.

Steve: Grommets reduce the rope strengths significantly.

John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
roof racks in expensive. Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
streamlined as the factory racks. I had Yakima racks for my
(now-disposed) Ford Taurus - I still used rope to tiedown the canoe
fore and aft with the radiator and such. John, I use club canoes
belonging to the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Jersey/New York,
though I plan to buy my own canoe.

I am going to try mounting bolts at judicious locations in the front
and back.

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

Just FYI, I carried a canoe for 1000 miles on top of my CJ7 with the
foam blocks and hooks and it was thunderhead after thunderhead after
thunderhead. We had to pull over several times because the wipers could
not clear the windows fast enough, heck everyone had to stop, not just
us and had to wait for many blown down trees to be moved during this
trip. It was 2 days of insane driving.

The canoe never budged. Actually I was even surprised at that...

That said, permanent anchor bolts aren't a bad idea.

Mike

Uni Skae wrote:
>
> uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote in message news:<396934ff.0410180725.3ee0b8c4@posting.google. com>...
> > I have read a few threads on canoe tiedowns and still do not have a
> > highly secure method for ensuring the boat does not fly off the roof.
> > I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2004 with factory installed roof rack and
> > crossbars. I do not have a hitch behind. I want to tie down the canoe
> > at the bow and stern - I do not want to take a change with just the
> > roof rack. The bumpers are part of the body with no gap, so tying the
> > rope around the bumper is not possible. In the front, I do not wish to
> > tie to the radiator, or the hood latch because these are not sturdy
> > enough. In the back, I do not see any suitable anchor.
> >
> > Where can the rope be tied to the front and back of the Jeep? Any
> > simple bolts or such which can be purchased to serve as anchor points?
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > Thank you.
>
> Interesting, though unsatisfactory responses:
>
> Mike Romain: I would not trust hooks on a long haul because the canoe
> can move or settle causing the hook to come off.
>
> Steve: Grommets reduce the rope strengths significantly.
>
> John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
> roof racks in expensive. Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
> gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
> streamlined as the factory racks. I had Yakima racks for my
> (now-disposed) Ford Taurus - I still used rope to tiedown the canoe
> fore and aft with the radiator and such. John, I use club canoes
> belonging to the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Jersey/New York,
> though I plan to buy my own canoe.
>
> I am going to try mounting bolts at judicious locations in the front
> and back.

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

Just FYI, I carried a canoe for 1000 miles on top of my CJ7 with the
foam blocks and hooks and it was thunderhead after thunderhead after
thunderhead. We had to pull over several times because the wipers could
not clear the windows fast enough, heck everyone had to stop, not just
us and had to wait for many blown down trees to be moved during this
trip. It was 2 days of insane driving.

The canoe never budged. Actually I was even surprised at that...

That said, permanent anchor bolts aren't a bad idea.

Mike

Uni Skae wrote:
>
> uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote in message news:<396934ff.0410180725.3ee0b8c4@posting.google. com>...
> > I have read a few threads on canoe tiedowns and still do not have a
> > highly secure method for ensuring the boat does not fly off the roof.
> > I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2004 with factory installed roof rack and
> > crossbars. I do not have a hitch behind. I want to tie down the canoe
> > at the bow and stern - I do not want to take a change with just the
> > roof rack. The bumpers are part of the body with no gap, so tying the
> > rope around the bumper is not possible. In the front, I do not wish to
> > tie to the radiator, or the hood latch because these are not sturdy
> > enough. In the back, I do not see any suitable anchor.
> >
> > Where can the rope be tied to the front and back of the Jeep? Any
> > simple bolts or such which can be purchased to serve as anchor points?
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > Thank you.
>
> Interesting, though unsatisfactory responses:
>
> Mike Romain: I would not trust hooks on a long haul because the canoe
> can move or settle causing the hook to come off.
>
> Steve: Grommets reduce the rope strengths significantly.
>
> John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
> roof racks in expensive. Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
> gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
> streamlined as the factory racks. I had Yakima racks for my
> (now-disposed) Ford Taurus - I still used rope to tiedown the canoe
> fore and aft with the radiator and such. John, I use club canoes
> belonging to the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Jersey/New York,
> though I plan to buy my own canoe.
>
> I am going to try mounting bolts at judicious locations in the front
> and back.

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

Just FYI, I carried a canoe for 1000 miles on top of my CJ7 with the
foam blocks and hooks and it was thunderhead after thunderhead after
thunderhead. We had to pull over several times because the wipers could
not clear the windows fast enough, heck everyone had to stop, not just
us and had to wait for many blown down trees to be moved during this
trip. It was 2 days of insane driving.

The canoe never budged. Actually I was even surprised at that...

That said, permanent anchor bolts aren't a bad idea.

Mike

Uni Skae wrote:
>
> uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote in message news:<396934ff.0410180725.3ee0b8c4@posting.google. com>...
> > I have read a few threads on canoe tiedowns and still do not have a
> > highly secure method for ensuring the boat does not fly off the roof.
> > I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2004 with factory installed roof rack and
> > crossbars. I do not have a hitch behind. I want to tie down the canoe
> > at the bow and stern - I do not want to take a change with just the
> > roof rack. The bumpers are part of the body with no gap, so tying the
> > rope around the bumper is not possible. In the front, I do not wish to
> > tie to the radiator, or the hood latch because these are not sturdy
> > enough. In the back, I do not see any suitable anchor.
> >
> > Where can the rope be tied to the front and back of the Jeep? Any
> > simple bolts or such which can be purchased to serve as anchor points?
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > Thank you.
>
> Interesting, though unsatisfactory responses:
>
> Mike Romain: I would not trust hooks on a long haul because the canoe
> can move or settle causing the hook to come off.
>
> Steve: Grommets reduce the rope strengths significantly.
>
> John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
> roof racks in expensive. Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
> gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
> streamlined as the factory racks. I had Yakima racks for my
> (now-disposed) Ford Taurus - I still used rope to tiedown the canoe
> fore and aft with the radiator and such. John, I use club canoes
> belonging to the Appalachian Mountain Club in New Jersey/New York,
> though I plan to buy my own canoe.
>
> I am going to try mounting bolts at judicious locations in the front
> and back.

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

On 23 Oct 2004 16:59:00 -0700, uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote:

>John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
>roof racks in expensive.

The factory racks on most new vehicles have very low load ratings -
around 125 pounds or so, and are often installed with small sheet
metal screws or pop rivets. The crossbars are very flexy due to their
aluminum construction and aero profile. I don't know what your rack
will carry, but consider the wind loads from your canoe. Tying down
front and rear certainly helps enormously, but you still face severe
torquing while driving in high crosswinds and when passing big trucks.
I personally would never trust a factory rack for a boat or other
expensive toy like a (good) bike.

A new Yakima system is costly, but you can buy them second hand at
sport rack stores and used sporting goods stores like Play It Again
Sports. My local PIAS store has about 6 various Yakima racks hanging
on the wall at reasonable cost. Compare the initial rack cost to the
potential cost and aggravation of repairing damage to your equipment
or vehicle if your flimsy factory rack fails.

> Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
>gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
>streamlined as the factory racks.

Where did you get this info about leaks? I have never heard of that
before. Did you mean to say they cause leaks at the rain gutter
towers? I don't see how they could cause leaks at the canoe gunwale
brackets ;(

I have used Yakima gutter mount racks for about 25 years on a variety
of vehicles and never had a problem. OTH, my '84 Suburban had teeny
weeny rain gutters attached with #6 sheet metal screws - that would
have been a leaky disaster. On that truck I used the 6 inch accessory
bolt-on rails further back on the roof and used the same type of rack
towers.

Looks should always be a secondary consideration to function when
considering a load carrying system. The gutter mount racks can be
unlocked and lifted off in about 2 minutes without affecting the fit.
Hang them on a pair of hooks screwed into the garage wall when they
are not in use. This works well even with the (necessary) fairing.

Anyway, each to his own. Good luck and enjoy the canoing.

John

John Davies TLCA 14732
http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/
'96 Lexus LX450
'00 Audi A4 1.8T quattro
Spokane WA USA

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

On 23 Oct 2004 16:59:00 -0700, uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote:

>John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
>roof racks in expensive.

The factory racks on most new vehicles have very low load ratings -
around 125 pounds or so, and are often installed with small sheet
metal screws or pop rivets. The crossbars are very flexy due to their
aluminum construction and aero profile. I don't know what your rack
will carry, but consider the wind loads from your canoe. Tying down
front and rear certainly helps enormously, but you still face severe
torquing while driving in high crosswinds and when passing big trucks.
I personally would never trust a factory rack for a boat or other
expensive toy like a (good) bike.

A new Yakima system is costly, but you can buy them second hand at
sport rack stores and used sporting goods stores like Play It Again
Sports. My local PIAS store has about 6 various Yakima racks hanging
on the wall at reasonable cost. Compare the initial rack cost to the
potential cost and aggravation of repairing damage to your equipment
or vehicle if your flimsy factory rack fails.

> Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
>gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
>streamlined as the factory racks.

Where did you get this info about leaks? I have never heard of that
before. Did you mean to say they cause leaks at the rain gutter
towers? I don't see how they could cause leaks at the canoe gunwale
brackets ;(

I have used Yakima gutter mount racks for about 25 years on a variety
of vehicles and never had a problem. OTH, my '84 Suburban had teeny
weeny rain gutters attached with #6 sheet metal screws - that would
have been a leaky disaster. On that truck I used the 6 inch accessory
bolt-on rails further back on the roof and used the same type of rack
towers.

Looks should always be a secondary consideration to function when
considering a load carrying system. The gutter mount racks can be
unlocked and lifted off in about 2 minutes without affecting the fit.
Hang them on a pair of hooks screwed into the garage wall when they
are not in use. This works well even with the (necessary) fairing.

Anyway, each to his own. Good luck and enjoy the canoing.

John

John Davies TLCA 14732
http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/
'96 Lexus LX450
'00 Audi A4 1.8T quattro
Spokane WA USA

Re: Canoe tiedown for Grand Cherokee 2004 - ongoing saga
 

On 23 Oct 2004 16:59:00 -0700, uniskae@yahoo.com (Uni Skae) wrote:

>John Davies: Replacing the factory installed roof racks with Yakima
>roof racks in expensive.

The factory racks on most new vehicles have very low load ratings -
around 125 pounds or so, and are often installed with small sheet
metal screws or pop rivets. The crossbars are very flexy due to their
aluminum construction and aero profile. I don't know what your rack
will carry, but consider the wind loads from your canoe. Tying down
front and rear certainly helps enormously, but you still face severe
torquing while driving in high crosswinds and when passing big trucks.
I personally would never trust a factory rack for a boat or other
expensive toy like a (good) bike.

A new Yakima system is costly, but you can buy them second hand at
sport rack stores and used sporting goods stores like Play It Again
Sports. My local PIAS store has about 6 various Yakima racks hanging
on the wall at reasonable cost. Compare the initial rack cost to the
potential cost and aggravation of repairing damage to your equipment
or vehicle if your flimsy factory rack fails.

> Moreover, these racks cause leaks near the
>gunwale brackets, and, aesthetically, these racks do not look as
>streamlined as the factory racks.

Where did you get this info about leaks? I have never heard of that
before. Did you mean to say they cause leaks at the rain gutter
towers? I don't see how they could cause leaks at the canoe gunwale
brackets ;(

I have used Yakima gutter mount racks for about 25 years on a variety
of vehicles and never had a problem. OTH, my '84 Suburban had teeny
weeny rain gutters attached with #6 sheet metal screws - that would
have been a leaky disaster. On that truck I used the 6 inch accessory
bolt-on rails further back on the roof and used the same type of rack
towers.

Looks should always be a secondary consideration to function when
considering a load carrying system. The gutter mount racks can be
unlocked and lifted off in about 2 minutes without affecting the fit.
Hang them on a pair of hooks screwed into the garage wall when they
are not in use. This works well even with the (necessary) fairing.

Anyway, each to his own. Good luck and enjoy the canoing.

John

John Davies TLCA 14732
http://home.comcast.net/~johnedavies/
'96 Lexus LX450
'00 Audi A4 1.8T quattro
Spokane WA USA