Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
CJ.

I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
snaps were removed and filled in.

Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.

I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
(don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
need to be in their car seat still.)

For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
too)?

While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
mileage TJ?

Thanks in advance!

Rob

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Rob (rob.mullins@verizon.com) wrote on Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:17 pm:

> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Here's a worst case scenario - the threads are shot completely. At this
point, you've got two possible fixes, both of which are cheap and easy to
do.

First, you could re-tap the hole to the next size up, and put in some grade
5 or grade 8 bolts (don't use cheap-o bolts!). This requires a tap, a tap
handle, some oil to lube the tap, and the new bolts. You may also want to
re-drill the hole first to get rid of any rust, etc...

Second, you could clean out the threads completely and just run grade 8
bolts completely through to the underside of the jeep, where you put grade
8 washers, lockwashers, and nuts. It ain't movin'. If you get in a wreck
so bad that the seat comes loose, you'll be happy that it flew out of the
vehicle.

If the threads aren't so bad, you can buy a thread cleaning tool. It's not
as sharp as a tap, but it'll remove the old gunk and rust from the threads.
It'll allow to use the original bolts.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Rob (rob.mullins@verizon.com) wrote on Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:17 pm:

> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Here's a worst case scenario - the threads are shot completely. At this
point, you've got two possible fixes, both of which are cheap and easy to
do.

First, you could re-tap the hole to the next size up, and put in some grade
5 or grade 8 bolts (don't use cheap-o bolts!). This requires a tap, a tap
handle, some oil to lube the tap, and the new bolts. You may also want to
re-drill the hole first to get rid of any rust, etc...

Second, you could clean out the threads completely and just run grade 8
bolts completely through to the underside of the jeep, where you put grade
8 washers, lockwashers, and nuts. It ain't movin'. If you get in a wreck
so bad that the seat comes loose, you'll be happy that it flew out of the
vehicle.

If the threads aren't so bad, you can buy a thread cleaning tool. It's not
as sharp as a tap, but it'll remove the old gunk and rust from the threads.
It'll allow to use the original bolts.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Rob (rob.mullins@verizon.com) wrote on Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:17 pm:

> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Here's a worst case scenario - the threads are shot completely. At this
point, you've got two possible fixes, both of which are cheap and easy to
do.

First, you could re-tap the hole to the next size up, and put in some grade
5 or grade 8 bolts (don't use cheap-o bolts!). This requires a tap, a tap
handle, some oil to lube the tap, and the new bolts. You may also want to
re-drill the hole first to get rid of any rust, etc...

Second, you could clean out the threads completely and just run grade 8
bolts completely through to the underside of the jeep, where you put grade
8 washers, lockwashers, and nuts. It ain't movin'. If you get in a wreck
so bad that the seat comes loose, you'll be happy that it flew out of the
vehicle.

If the threads aren't so bad, you can buy a thread cleaning tool. It's not
as sharp as a tap, but it'll remove the old gunk and rust from the threads.
It'll allow to use the original bolts.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Rob (rob.mullins@verizon.com) wrote on Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:17 pm:

> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Here's a worst case scenario - the threads are shot completely. At this
point, you've got two possible fixes, both of which are cheap and easy to
do.

First, you could re-tap the hole to the next size up, and put in some grade
5 or grade 8 bolts (don't use cheap-o bolts!). This requires a tap, a tap
handle, some oil to lube the tap, and the new bolts. You may also want to
re-drill the hole first to get rid of any rust, etc...

Second, you could clean out the threads completely and just run grade 8
bolts completely through to the underside of the jeep, where you put grade
8 washers, lockwashers, and nuts. It ain't movin'. If you get in a wreck
so bad that the seat comes loose, you'll be happy that it flew out of the
vehicle.

If the threads aren't so bad, you can buy a thread cleaning tool. It's not
as sharp as a tap, but it'll remove the old gunk and rust from the threads.
It'll allow to use the original bolts.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer, 1891

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Hi Rob,
I think I'd pass, it sounds too much like rust repair, which means
the boxed frame will be rusted out at the low spots like the rear
shackles.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rob wrote:
>
> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Hi Rob,
I think I'd pass, it sounds too much like rust repair, which means
the boxed frame will be rusted out at the low spots like the rear
shackles.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rob wrote:
>
> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Hi Rob,
I think I'd pass, it sounds too much like rust repair, which means
the boxed frame will be rusted out at the low spots like the rear
shackles.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rob wrote:
>
> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

Hi Rob,
I think I'd pass, it sounds too much like rust repair, which means
the boxed frame will be rusted out at the low spots like the rear
shackles.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Rob wrote:
>
> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob

Re: Buying a half restored CJ - help needed
 

How old a Jeep are you looking at? Buying a half "restored" CJ might be
more work and cost than you're hoping for in a daily-driver. If nothing
else, you won't know what really got restored and what got spackled-over.

New paint and spray-on bedliner can cover a multitude of sins, especially
in one that you already know has had some sheetmetal surgery. There might
be a lot of aluminium tape under that bedliner. There might be a lot of
baling wire and hose clamps lurking under the floor. Or not: I'm just
saying. Crawl under the thing, look for rust. Poke at fresh undercoating
with an awl. Try to rock the body off the frame. Look at the inner side
of the rear frame rails back by the spring hangers for rot.

Finding the rear seat holes without scratching off all the bedliner might
be a trick. If you are using a fixed rear bench you should be able to
find the forward holes by crawling underneath and looking for captured
nuts on the floor. Then use the seat as a template to find the rear
holes. But if you are using the rear seat for anything other than
groceries, you want the seat and belts very securely mounted. A seat that
comes loose before the belt puts the passenger between a hammer and a
knife edge, any system that allows you to be ejected is very probably
going to kill someone -- unless it launches you through an open window in
the Acme Fluffy Pillow Warehouse.



On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Rob wrote:

> Brief history - I had an '82 CJ-7 needing cosmetic repairs and never
> had time for it. Sold it. Regretted it. Bought a TJ. Miss the ol'
> CJ.
>
> I'm looking at one now that has had sheet metal repairs and had any of
> the old mounting spots for a shot top bondo'd and painted. All the
> snaps were removed and filled in.
>
> Also, the inside has a spray-in liner. The owner removed the rear
> seat and seat belts so its an empty bed and spayed over the holes.
>
> I need this Jeep to be me daily driver so I need to add a soft top
> (don't want a hard top) and need the back seat (have little kids who
> need to be in their car seat still.)
>
> For someone relatively inexperienced with any sort of metal work or
> installing hardware like this, give me an idea how big a deal this is.
> i..e what if the old mounting pints for the rear seat started rusting
> before he sprayed? Will I have to drill/thread new holes? What are
> the risks of not having the rear seat securely anchored (seat belts
> too)?
>
> While I'm at it, anyone have a daily driver in little need to any
> cosmetic or functional repair they want to sell or trade for a low
> mileage TJ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rob
>
>