Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

No hay mal que por bien no venga. Or as you gringoes say, every cloud has a
silver lining.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:458EB7F9.ECCCAD0F@sympatico.ca...
> I'll bet that also made one driver relieved. He or she would have been
> thinking they were the ones that killed some poor guy in an accident
> when in fact, it was someone or something else that dealt the fatal
> blow.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his
> > airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a
> > collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually
been
> > involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had
properly
> > deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box
data
> > cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his
> > seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data
> > proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve
the
> > subject's chances of survival in this case.
> >
> > I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box
in
> > the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get
the
> > customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose
seems
> > to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a
side
> > benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main
argument
> > for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet
see
> > how they do that.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "bllsht" <nospam@dot.net> wrote in message
> > news:pvato257c54qprfo23hs9do8uib3ulh9h4@4ax.com...
> > > If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but
> > > everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie
> > > your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid.
> > >
> > > If that insults you, jackass...Good!
> > >
> > > On 24 Dec 2006 01:00:18 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
> > > <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if
a
> > > >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary
matter,
> > > >if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if
you
> > > >get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal
> > > >charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most
> > > >certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid,
idiot,
> > > >just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in
> > > >auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at
the
> > > >speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes,
> > > >etc.).
> > > >
> > > >bllsht wrote:
> > > >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
> > > >> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them
> > (and
> > > >> >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
> > > >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically
any
> > > >> >car with an airbag does have them.

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

No hay mal que por bien no venga. Or as you gringoes say, every cloud has a
silver lining.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:458EB7F9.ECCCAD0F@sympatico.ca...
> I'll bet that also made one driver relieved. He or she would have been
> thinking they were the ones that killed some poor guy in an accident
> when in fact, it was someone or something else that dealt the fatal
> blow.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his
> > airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a
> > collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually
been
> > involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had
properly
> > deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box
data
> > cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his
> > seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data
> > proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve
the
> > subject's chances of survival in this case.
> >
> > I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box
in
> > the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get
the
> > customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose
seems
> > to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a
side
> > benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main
argument
> > for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet
see
> > how they do that.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "bllsht" <nospam@dot.net> wrote in message
> > news:pvato257c54qprfo23hs9do8uib3ulh9h4@4ax.com...
> > > If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but
> > > everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie
> > > your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid.
> > >
> > > If that insults you, jackass...Good!
> > >
> > > On 24 Dec 2006 01:00:18 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
> > > <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if
a
> > > >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary
matter,
> > > >if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if
you
> > > >get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal
> > > >charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most
> > > >certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid,
idiot,
> > > >just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in
> > > >auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at
the
> > > >speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes,
> > > >etc.).
> > > >
> > > >bllsht wrote:
> > > >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
> > > >> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them
> > (and
> > > >> >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
> > > >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically
any
> > > >> >car with an airbag does have them.

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

No hay mal que por bien no venga. Or as you gringoes say, every cloud has a
silver lining.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:458EB7F9.ECCCAD0F@sympatico.ca...
> I'll bet that also made one driver relieved. He or she would have been
> thinking they were the ones that killed some poor guy in an accident
> when in fact, it was someone or something else that dealt the fatal
> blow.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his
> > airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a
> > collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually
been
> > involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had
properly
> > deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box
data
> > cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his
> > seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data
> > proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve
the
> > subject's chances of survival in this case.
> >
> > I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box
in
> > the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get
the
> > customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose
seems
> > to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a
side
> > benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main
argument
> > for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet
see
> > how they do that.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "bllsht" <nospam@dot.net> wrote in message
> > news:pvato257c54qprfo23hs9do8uib3ulh9h4@4ax.com...
> > > If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but
> > > everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie
> > > your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid.
> > >
> > > If that insults you, jackass...Good!
> > >
> > > On 24 Dec 2006 01:00:18 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
> > > <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if
a
> > > >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary
matter,
> > > >if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if
you
> > > >get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal
> > > >charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most
> > > >certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid,
idiot,
> > > >just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in
> > > >auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at
the
> > > >speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes,
> > > >etc.).
> > > >
> > > >bllsht wrote:
> > > >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
> > > >> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them
> > (and
> > > >> >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
> > > >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically
any
> > > >> >car with an airbag does have them.

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:01:17 -0700, "Earle Horton"
<earle@sabinoarana.org> wrote:

>In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his
>airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a
>collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually been
>involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had properly
>deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box data
>cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his
>seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data
>proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve the
>subject's chances of survival in this case.
>
>I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box in
>the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get the
>customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose seems
>to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a side
>benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main argument
>for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet see
>how they do that.

I guess it depends on who's using the data, and what their motive is.
A manufacturer learning how their systems work in the real world would
be much less newsworthy than somebody who kills while driving like an
idiot and is held liable based based on captured data.


>
>Earle
>
>"bllsht" <nospam@dot.net> wrote in message
>news:pvato257c54qprfo23hs9do8uib3ulh9h4@4ax.com.. .
>> If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but
>> everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie
>> your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid.
>>
>> If that insults you, jackass...Good!
>>
>> On 24 Dec 2006 01:00:18 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if a
>> >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary matter,
>> >if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if you
>> >get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal
>> >charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most
>> >certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid, idiot,
>> >just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in
>> >auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at the
>> >speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes,
>> >etc.).
>> >
>> >bllsht wrote:
>> >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>> >> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them
>(and
>> >> >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
>> >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any
>> >> >car with an airbag does have them.
>

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:01:17 -0700, "Earle Horton"
<earle@sabinoarana.org> wrote:

>In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his
>airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a
>collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually been
>involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had properly
>deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box data
>cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his
>seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data
>proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve the
>subject's chances of survival in this case.
>
>I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box in
>the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get the
>customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose seems
>to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a side
>benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main argument
>for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet see
>how they do that.

I guess it depends on who's using the data, and what their motive is.
A manufacturer learning how their systems work in the real world would
be much less newsworthy than somebody who kills while driving like an
idiot and is held liable based based on captured data.


>
>Earle
>
>"bllsht" <nospam@dot.net> wrote in message
>news:pvato257c54qprfo23hs9do8uib3ulh9h4@4ax.com.. .
>> If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but
>> everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie
>> your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid.
>>
>> If that insults you, jackass...Good!
>>
>> On 24 Dec 2006 01:00:18 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if a
>> >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary matter,
>> >if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if you
>> >get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal
>> >charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most
>> >certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid, idiot,
>> >just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in
>> >auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at the
>> >speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes,
>> >etc.).
>> >
>> >bllsht wrote:
>> >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>> >> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them
>(and
>> >> >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
>> >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any
>> >> >car with an airbag does have them.
>

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:01:17 -0700, "Earle Horton"
<earle@sabinoarana.org> wrote:

>In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his
>airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a
>collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually been
>involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had properly
>deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box data
>cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his
>seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data
>proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve the
>subject's chances of survival in this case.
>
>I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box in
>the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get the
>customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose seems
>to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a side
>benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main argument
>for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet see
>how they do that.

I guess it depends on who's using the data, and what their motive is.
A manufacturer learning how their systems work in the real world would
be much less newsworthy than somebody who kills while driving like an
idiot and is held liable based based on captured data.


>
>Earle
>
>"bllsht" <nospam@dot.net> wrote in message
>news:pvato257c54qprfo23hs9do8uib3ulh9h4@4ax.com.. .
>> If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but
>> everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie
>> your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid.
>>
>> If that insults you, jackass...Good!
>>
>> On 24 Dec 2006 01:00:18 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if a
>> >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary matter,
>> >if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if you
>> >get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal
>> >charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most
>> >certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid, idiot,
>> >just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in
>> >auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at the
>> >speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes,
>> >etc.).
>> >
>> >bllsht wrote:
>> >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>> >> <doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them
>(and
>> >> >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
>> >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any
>> >> >car with an airbag does have them.
>

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> So the guy tried to lie for an insurance scam or to avoid a ticket or to
> avoid liability with whom he hit.
>
> The SOB deserves every ticket and lawyers fees he has incurred in my
> opinion And he deserves to be nailed for being a liar.
>
> What about the victims of his lies?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> So the guy tried to lie for an insurance scam or to avoid a ticket or to
> avoid liability with whom he hit.
>
> The SOB deserves every ticket and lawyers fees he has incurred in my
> opinion And he deserves to be nailed for being a liar.
>
> What about the victims of his lies?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> So the guy tried to lie for an insurance scam or to avoid a ticket or to
> avoid liability with whom he hit.
>
> The SOB deserves every ticket and lawyers fees he has incurred in my
> opinion And he deserves to be nailed for being a liar.
>
> What about the victims of his lies?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Re: ?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
 

So you're doing 65 in a 60 when the guy next to you sideswipes you
into the ditch. Want to guess who's fault it is?

Perhaps you'll like paying taxes based on the miles you drive? Or the
roads you drive on?

This is only the start and already we're not being informed of the
extent of the monitoring underway. It's only going to become more and
more obtrusive.



On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:22:16 -0500, "billy ray"
<billy_ray@SPAMfuse.net> wrote:

>This just proves that someone involved in the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"
>was able to either alter the black box data after the fact.
>
>
><Matt Osborn> wrote in message
>news:nkaso298abli2rdg96hmdtf3di82ajqcb7@4ax.com.. .
>> "The "black box" recorded that the SUV was traveling at 71 mph about
>> five seconds before its airbags deployed. Trask told investigators
>> that his speedometer showed 55 mph before he began passing the car."
>>
>> http://www.motorists.com/issues/edrs/mainegovernor.html
>>
>>
>> Can you afford the attorney fees necessary to protect yourself?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 22:06:55 -0800, bllsht <nospam@dot.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 23 Dec 2006 10:48:00 -0800, "doylexus@yahoo.com"
>>><doylexus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and
>>>>whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the
>>>>auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any
>>>>car with an airbag does have them.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com
>



-- msosborn at msosborn dot com