Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

"Clay B Carley" <cbc@corp.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4694f601$0$14127$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:41 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes but in a solid axle vehicle caster is less critical than say in an
>>>IFS.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am no so sure that I share this view. Solid axles as not immune to
>> this and in someways even more sensitive to it it you want it to track
>> correctly. My 89 4x4 burb will track for a long time hands off on a
>> good highway road before requiring correction even after 180K plus
>> miles. When it was new I added caster shims between spring pads and
>> springs to add about 2 degrees of positve caster to it or stock
>> setting as I recall because I did not like the way it tracked when new
>> and those shims are still in there today. -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
>
> I think caster is important in any vehicle, no matter what front end it's
> got.

I agree, I never said it wasn't important, I said things like toe-in and
draglink settings are more critical. To clarify, that would be on a
moderately lifted Jeep like mine, where the caster was affected by the
pinion angle ajdjustment , yet it does track well on the highway.

Caster helps, just like you say, essentially keeping the
> wheel centered at high speeds. I would consider it a safety item even.
> Incorrect caster can lead to an unstable vehicle on the highway.
>
> If someone is going through the work to lift their vehicle enough to turn
> the pinion up on the front end to the point of 0 caster or negative
> caster, they should seriously consider having the axle either cut & turned
> so that both pinion angle & caster are correct, or get a new axle that's
> got the proper angles for your lift built in.

Agreed, but a typical 4-5" lift wouldn't set the caster so far out of spec
as to make the handling unsafe.

>
> It might not be so much of an issue with ifs simply because the caster can
> be set independantly of the pinion angle...
>
> Clay

Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

"Clay B Carley" <cbc@corp.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4694f601$0$14127$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:41 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes but in a solid axle vehicle caster is less critical than say in an
>>>IFS.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am no so sure that I share this view. Solid axles as not immune to
>> this and in someways even more sensitive to it it you want it to track
>> correctly. My 89 4x4 burb will track for a long time hands off on a
>> good highway road before requiring correction even after 180K plus
>> miles. When it was new I added caster shims between spring pads and
>> springs to add about 2 degrees of positve caster to it or stock
>> setting as I recall because I did not like the way it tracked when new
>> and those shims are still in there today. -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
>
> I think caster is important in any vehicle, no matter what front end it's
> got.

I agree, I never said it wasn't important, I said things like toe-in and
draglink settings are more critical. To clarify, that would be on a
moderately lifted Jeep like mine, where the caster was affected by the
pinion angle ajdjustment , yet it does track well on the highway.

Caster helps, just like you say, essentially keeping the
> wheel centered at high speeds. I would consider it a safety item even.
> Incorrect caster can lead to an unstable vehicle on the highway.
>
> If someone is going through the work to lift their vehicle enough to turn
> the pinion up on the front end to the point of 0 caster or negative
> caster, they should seriously consider having the axle either cut & turned
> so that both pinion angle & caster are correct, or get a new axle that's
> got the proper angles for your lift built in.

Agreed, but a typical 4-5" lift wouldn't set the caster so far out of spec
as to make the handling unsafe.

>
> It might not be so much of an issue with ifs simply because the caster can
> be set independantly of the pinion angle...
>
> Clay

Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

"Clay B Carley" <cbc@corp.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4694f601$0$14127$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:41 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes but in a solid axle vehicle caster is less critical than say in an
>>>IFS.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am no so sure that I share this view. Solid axles as not immune to
>> this and in someways even more sensitive to it it you want it to track
>> correctly. My 89 4x4 burb will track for a long time hands off on a
>> good highway road before requiring correction even after 180K plus
>> miles. When it was new I added caster shims between spring pads and
>> springs to add about 2 degrees of positve caster to it or stock
>> setting as I recall because I did not like the way it tracked when new
>> and those shims are still in there today. -----------------
>> TheSnoMan.com
>
> I think caster is important in any vehicle, no matter what front end it's
> got.

I agree, I never said it wasn't important, I said things like toe-in and
draglink settings are more critical. To clarify, that would be on a
moderately lifted Jeep like mine, where the caster was affected by the
pinion angle ajdjustment , yet it does track well on the highway.

Caster helps, just like you say, essentially keeping the
> wheel centered at high speeds. I would consider it a safety item even.
> Incorrect caster can lead to an unstable vehicle on the highway.
>
> If someone is going through the work to lift their vehicle enough to turn
> the pinion up on the front end to the point of 0 caster or negative
> caster, they should seriously consider having the axle either cut & turned
> so that both pinion angle & caster are correct, or get a new axle that's
> got the proper angles for your lift built in.

Agreed, but a typical 4-5" lift wouldn't set the caster so far out of spec
as to make the handling unsafe.

>
> It might not be so much of an issue with ifs simply because the caster can
> be set independantly of the pinion angle...
>
> Clay

Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

But you want to keep the caster at three degrees, to keep it from doing
the shopping cart wobble: http://www.----------.com/temp/casterAngle.mpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:-PKdnWGk8uFDmQnbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The primary reason for caster adjustment is to have proper driveline
angles.
> Caster doesn't have an affect on alignment like a drag link or tie rod,
but
> caster changes will affect the "on-center" feel of the steering wheel.
>
> According to the FSM, proper driveshaft angles are priority over on-center
> feel of the steering wheel.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

But you want to keep the caster at three degrees, to keep it from doing
the shopping cart wobble: http://www.----------.com/temp/casterAngle.mpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:-PKdnWGk8uFDmQnbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The primary reason for caster adjustment is to have proper driveline
angles.
> Caster doesn't have an affect on alignment like a drag link or tie rod,
but
> caster changes will affect the "on-center" feel of the steering wheel.
>
> According to the FSM, proper driveshaft angles are priority over on-center
> feel of the steering wheel.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

But you want to keep the caster at three degrees, to keep it from doing
the shopping cart wobble: http://www.----------.com/temp/casterAngle.mpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:-PKdnWGk8uFDmQnbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The primary reason for caster adjustment is to have proper driveline
angles.
> Caster doesn't have an affect on alignment like a drag link or tie rod,
but
> caster changes will affect the "on-center" feel of the steering wheel.
>
> According to the FSM, proper driveshaft angles are priority over on-center
> feel of the steering wheel.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

But you want to keep the caster at three degrees, to keep it from doing
the shopping cart wobble: http://www.----------.com/temp/casterAngle.mpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:-PKdnWGk8uFDmQnbnZ2dnUVZ_o2vnZ2d@comcast.com...
> The primary reason for caster adjustment is to have proper driveline
angles.
> Caster doesn't have an affect on alignment like a drag link or tie rod,
but
> caster changes will affect the "on-center" feel of the steering wheel.
>
> According to the FSM, proper driveshaft angles are priority over on-center
> feel of the steering wheel.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Re: Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:45:17 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:

>
>"Clay B Carley" <cbc@corp.sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:4694f601$0$14127$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net.. .
>> SnoMan wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:41 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes but in a solid axle vehicle caster is less critical than say in an
>>>>IFS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am no so sure that I share this view. Solid axles as not immune to
>>> this and in someways even more sensitive to it it you want it to track
>>> correctly. My 89 4x4 burb will track for a long time hands off on a
>>> good highway road before requiring correction even after 180K plus
>>> miles. When it was new I added caster shims between spring pads and
>>> springs to add about 2 degrees of positve caster to it or stock
>>> setting as I recall because I did not like the way it tracked when new
>>> and those shims are still in there today. -----------------
>>> TheSnoMan.com
>>
>> I think caster is important in any vehicle, no matter what front end it's
>> got.
>
>I agree, I never said it wasn't important, I said things like toe-in and
>draglink settings are more critical. To clarify, that would be on a
>moderately lifted Jeep like mine, where the caster was affected by the
>pinion angle ajdjustment , yet it does track well on the highway.

Caster is important period. If you are runnignnwith nuetral to
negative caster you are playing with fire on a lifted 4x4 beacuase it
raises possible of control loss due to front end oscillation when
conditions are right.

>
>Caster helps, just like you say, essentially keeping the
>> wheel centered at high speeds. I would consider it a safety item even.
>> Incorrect caster can lead to an unstable vehicle on the highway.
>>
>> If someone is going through the work to lift their vehicle enough to turn
>> the pinion up on the front end to the point of 0 caster or negative
>> caster, they should seriously consider having the axle either cut & turned
>> so that both pinion angle & caster are correct, or get a new axle that's
>> got the proper angles for your lift built in.
>
>Agreed, but a typical 4-5" lift wouldn't set the caster so far out of spec
>as to make the handling unsafe.

I would not say that at all either (I guess you hae never actually
aligned many or any 4x4 front ends) . Actually a lift with big tires
and increase tread contact and rolling resistance increases the need
for more postive caster. Caster needs to be changed with lift and tire
size and if you want to get really techical, camber should to (one of
cambers functions to to center bearing load properly on spindle) Sure
some squeak by but then some get the crap scared out of them when they
get a bad case of the death wooble at the wrong time. (I have seen
them shake so bad that they can take a 4x4 right off the road,
especailly a short wheel base Jeep)

>
>>
>> It might not be so much of an issue with ifs simply because the caster can
>> be set independantly of the pinion angle...
>>
>> Clay
>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:45:17 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:

>
>"Clay B Carley" <cbc@corp.sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:4694f601$0$14127$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net.. .
>> SnoMan wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:41 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes but in a solid axle vehicle caster is less critical than say in an
>>>>IFS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am no so sure that I share this view. Solid axles as not immune to
>>> this and in someways even more sensitive to it it you want it to track
>>> correctly. My 89 4x4 burb will track for a long time hands off on a
>>> good highway road before requiring correction even after 180K plus
>>> miles. When it was new I added caster shims between spring pads and
>>> springs to add about 2 degrees of positve caster to it or stock
>>> setting as I recall because I did not like the way it tracked when new
>>> and those shims are still in there today. -----------------
>>> TheSnoMan.com
>>
>> I think caster is important in any vehicle, no matter what front end it's
>> got.
>
>I agree, I never said it wasn't important, I said things like toe-in and
>draglink settings are more critical. To clarify, that would be on a
>moderately lifted Jeep like mine, where the caster was affected by the
>pinion angle ajdjustment , yet it does track well on the highway.

Caster is important period. If you are runnignnwith nuetral to
negative caster you are playing with fire on a lifted 4x4 beacuase it
raises possible of control loss due to front end oscillation when
conditions are right.

>
>Caster helps, just like you say, essentially keeping the
>> wheel centered at high speeds. I would consider it a safety item even.
>> Incorrect caster can lead to an unstable vehicle on the highway.
>>
>> If someone is going through the work to lift their vehicle enough to turn
>> the pinion up on the front end to the point of 0 caster or negative
>> caster, they should seriously consider having the axle either cut & turned
>> so that both pinion angle & caster are correct, or get a new axle that's
>> got the proper angles for your lift built in.
>
>Agreed, but a typical 4-5" lift wouldn't set the caster so far out of spec
>as to make the handling unsafe.

I would not say that at all either (I guess you hae never actually
aligned many or any 4x4 front ends) . Actually a lift with big tires
and increase tread contact and rolling resistance increases the need
for more postive caster. Caster needs to be changed with lift and tire
size and if you want to get really techical, camber should to (one of
cambers functions to to center bearing load properly on spindle) Sure
some squeak by but then some get the crap scared out of them when they
get a bad case of the death wooble at the wrong time. (I have seen
them shake so bad that they can take a 4x4 right off the road,
especailly a short wheel base Jeep)

>
>>
>> It might not be so much of an issue with ifs simply because the caster can
>> be set independantly of the pinion angle...
>>
>> Clay
>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Re: Re: Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms
 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:45:17 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:

>
>"Clay B Carley" <cbc@corp.sonic.net> wrote in message
>news:4694f601$0$14127$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net.. .
>> SnoMan wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:55:41 -0400, "Matt Macchiarolo"
>>> <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes but in a solid axle vehicle caster is less critical than say in an
>>>>IFS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am no so sure that I share this view. Solid axles as not immune to
>>> this and in someways even more sensitive to it it you want it to track
>>> correctly. My 89 4x4 burb will track for a long time hands off on a
>>> good highway road before requiring correction even after 180K plus
>>> miles. When it was new I added caster shims between spring pads and
>>> springs to add about 2 degrees of positve caster to it or stock
>>> setting as I recall because I did not like the way it tracked when new
>>> and those shims are still in there today. -----------------
>>> TheSnoMan.com
>>
>> I think caster is important in any vehicle, no matter what front end it's
>> got.
>
>I agree, I never said it wasn't important, I said things like toe-in and
>draglink settings are more critical. To clarify, that would be on a
>moderately lifted Jeep like mine, where the caster was affected by the
>pinion angle ajdjustment , yet it does track well on the highway.

Caster is important period. If you are runnignnwith nuetral to
negative caster you are playing with fire on a lifted 4x4 beacuase it
raises possible of control loss due to front end oscillation when
conditions are right.

>
>Caster helps, just like you say, essentially keeping the
>> wheel centered at high speeds. I would consider it a safety item even.
>> Incorrect caster can lead to an unstable vehicle on the highway.
>>
>> If someone is going through the work to lift their vehicle enough to turn
>> the pinion up on the front end to the point of 0 caster or negative
>> caster, they should seriously consider having the axle either cut & turned
>> so that both pinion angle & caster are correct, or get a new axle that's
>> got the proper angles for your lift built in.
>
>Agreed, but a typical 4-5" lift wouldn't set the caster so far out of spec
>as to make the handling unsafe.

I would not say that at all either (I guess you hae never actually
aligned many or any 4x4 front ends) . Actually a lift with big tires
and increase tread contact and rolling resistance increases the need
for more postive caster. Caster needs to be changed with lift and tire
size and if you want to get really techical, camber should to (one of
cambers functions to to center bearing load properly on spindle) Sure
some squeak by but then some get the crap scared out of them when they
get a bad case of the death wooble at the wrong time. (I have seen
them shake so bad that they can take a 4x4 right off the road,
especailly a short wheel base Jeep)

>
>>
>> It might not be so much of an issue with ifs simply because the caster can
>> be set independantly of the pinion angle...
>>
>> Clay
>
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com