Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

paul castle wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> Our company (www.tactics.com) owns a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 4.0
> L engine.


A very common, typically bulletproof engine, with quirks that
are well known to any shop that knows jeeps.

First you need to check your owners manual for how to get
warranty service. Then you can also check the California
Bureau of Automotive Repair for essentially the same
information from a slightly different perspective.



> Yesterday while driving on the highway its
> engine blew up --- the top of piston in cylinder #5 is shrapnel and has
> damaged that cylinder and also #6. Until then, the Jeep was
> regularly maintained at a dealer here in San Jose, CA. There were no
> advance signs of trouble -- no funny sounds, or even displays
> on the instrument panel. Just sudden death. The vehicle has 72k miles,
> 80% of which were from highway driving. It had the
> standard 3 yr/36k mile warranty.

Which jeep dealer in San Jose? There are only a few.

That isn't the Chrysler warranty period for that vehicle, particularly
for the drivetrain which is 7/70.

Unless the dealer has some reason to suspect
that this was due to an externally induced fault and not a defect of
the engine...OR you are making the mistake of not dealing with
an authorised repair facility and want Jeep to give warranty service
without giving them a chance to inspect the damage and resolve the
issue which becomes a bit trickier to deal with.

Note that you do not have to take your jeep to the same dealer,
but you can expect a bit of difficulty getting warranty service
thru a non-warranty repair shop unless you have a third party
warranty that provides for this.

>
> I need your help, in the form of INFORMATION to help build a case
> against Jeep to motivate them to replace the engine. I am looking for
> other informatin and problems that can substantiate known problems with
> the engine, catalytic converter, or ignition system.

Any qualified lawyer [without which you don't have a prayer] would
have no problems at all gathering this information for you.

You can also gather anecdotal information with any search engine
for yourself.

>
> Today, multiple calls to the dealer and their 1-800-992-1997 service
> center have, predictably, resulted in nothing. Just a
> cold "its your problem and this call needs to end."

In your owners manual and on the chrysler website there are
details as to what the manufacturer warranty provides and
does not provide.


>
>
> HERE IS HOW YOU CAN HELP ...
>
> I think Jeep had problems with that engine and is keeping it quiet. I
> need information to be armed agains those who say no at Jeep.

Nothing you gain here will be worth anything that you cant
get on your own.

>
> I have learned that engine was only in production for that one model
> year (highly unusual given the costs for designing and tooling
> up for production).

Whoever told you this is wrong, and worse, ignorantly wrong
since this is information easily checked.


> Unlike other engines, for this Jeep doesn't sell
> complete engines for replacement, only short block and head.
> The (non -Jeep) repair shop where the vehicle was towed was shocked at
> that. They speculate that the blow up was caused by a
> problem in the catalytic converter -- perhaps an explosion there and
> back pressure causing another explosion in the cylinder.

Ahhh, so you don't have your vehicle at a Jeep Dealer?
And if that shop gave you the misinformation concerning
warranty period and engine series, you may want to get your
vehicle out of that shop immediately.

>
> WHAT do you in this group know about this engine? Are there any
> recurring problems or symptoms?
>
> Are there any known problems with the catalytic converter?
>
> WHAT hot buttons do you recommend pushing to motivate Jeep's management
> to settle?
>
> HOW does Jeep approach situations like this? HOW to get over the moat
>
> What other ideas do you have that might explain why a piston would
> suddely explode?

Without seeing the piston, hard to say. Prolonged pinging
can take one out rapidly. The ones I've seen like this
tended to have a somewhat melted look.
>
>
> Am I off base here? Am I wrong to expect that it is unusual for an
> engine to explode? Am I wrong to think that its Jeep's responsibility
> to fix their product under these unusual circumstances?

Demand warranty service from an authorised dealer. Which could
get sticky since you've already had the engine taken apart
by a non-authorized service place and thus given the dealer
possible legal grounds to tell you to pound sand.

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

He can't delete it, as it is included intact in followups which
he can't delete.


RichH wrote:

> Could have sucked a valve.... but thats a very rare occurance in a
> vehicle that's driven 'normally'. Two sucked valves .....nah.
>
> Its pretty rare for such a catastrophic failure (TWO pistons) to occur
> and NOT have 'some' prior warning. "Judgment for the plaintiff .....
> FIVE PERCENT of CLAIM, failed to take reasonable/prudent action to
> prevent on-going total damage".
>
> Paul, for your own sake, ERASE/DELETE your original message to this NG.
> How much service or recourse from DC do you expect, now that you've
> announced to the world that you're "building a case". Honey gets more
> flys than vinegar.
>
>
>
> L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> I don't think you have a leg to stand on. That's why we get
>> warrantees with new vehicles is to spell out their limitations. I think
>> the old Rambler engine is unusually resilient. The only reason I could
>> image a broken piston is by the constant hammering of a low octane
>> gasoline pre detonation (ping).
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> paul castle wrote:
>>
>>>Dear Friends,
>>>
>>>Our company (www.tactics.com) owns a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 4.0
>>>L engine. Yesterday while driving on the highway its
>>>engine blew up --- the top of piston in cylinder #5 is shrapnel and has
>>>damaged that cylinder and also #6. Until then, the Jeep was
>>>regularly maintained at a dealer here in San Jose, CA. There were no
>>>advance signs of trouble -- no funny sounds, or even displays
>>>on the instrument panel. Just sudden death. The vehicle has 72k miles,
>>>80% of which were from highway driving. It had the
>>>standard 3 yr/36k mile warranty.
>>>
>>>I need your help, in the form of INFORMATION to help build a case
>>>against Jeep to motivate them to replace the engine. I am looking for
>>>other informatin and problems that can substantiate known problems with
>>>the engine, catalytic converter, or ignition system.
>>>
>>>Today, multiple calls to the dealer and their 1-800-992-1997 service
>>>center have, predictably, resulted in nothing. Just a
>>>cold "its your problem and this call needs to end."
>>>
>>>HERE IS HOW YOU CAN HELP ...
>>>
>>>I think Jeep had problems with that engine and is keeping it quiet. I
>>>need information to be armed agains those who say no at Jeep.
>>>
>>>I have learned that engine was only in production for that one model
>>>year (highly unusual given the costs for designing and tooling
>>>up for production). Unlike other engines, for this Jeep doesn't sell
>>>complete engines for replacement, only short block and head.
>>>The (non -Jeep) repair shop where the vehicle was towed was shocked at
>>>that. They speculate that the blow up was caused by a
>>>problem in the catalytic converter -- perhaps an explosion there and
>>>back pressure causing another explosion in the cylinder.
>>>
>>>WHAT do you in this group know about this engine? Are there any
>>>recurring problems or symptoms?
>>>
>>>Are there any known problems with the catalytic converter?
>>>
>>>WHAT hot buttons do you recommend pushing to motivate Jeep's management
>>>to settle?
>>>
>>>HOW does Jeep approach situations like this? HOW to get over the moat
>>>
>>>What other ideas do you have that might explain why a piston would
>>>suddely explode?
>>>
>>>Am I off base here? Am I wrong to expect that it is unusual for an
>>>engine to explode? Am I wrong to think that its Jeep's responsibility
>>>to fix their product under these unusual circumstances?
>>>
>>>Thanks for your help.
>>>Paul
>>
>

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

>I have an 01TJ and the FSM say the cat (er cats) is to last the lifetime
>of the vehicle. What is the proposed lifetime anyway?


Cats last until you smash 'em, or until you can't pass smog unless you change
them. Sometimes they barely last 70,000 miles, sometimes they last twice that.



Robert Bills
KG6LMV
Orange County CA

http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
http://www.RobertBills.com

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

Even if the catalytic convert was clogged like a potato in the
exhaust pipe trick, it wouldn't hurt the engine. Long before any damage
the back pressure would blow back through cross valve duration and
eliminate any vacuum that is needed even with injection and simple shut
the engine off.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

FrankW wrote:
>
> I have an 01TJ and the FSM say the cat (er cats) is to last the lifetime
> of the vehicle. What is the proposed lifetime anyway?
> I've asked this question earlier and someone responded with
> "after the warranty" :-)
> As for the piston blowing up, I heard water in gas can have bad effects.

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

Does the sugar dissolve in any water [or gas] to get past the
fuel filters and avoid clogging an injector open?


L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:

> Sugar melts then solidifies, sticks on the valve guides and holds
> them open, causes no damage to the engine, other than someone's got to
> take it apart to clean it. As expensive as rebuilding the engine.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Jamie wrote:
>>
>> Sugar in the gas tank?
>>
>> Anyway, since this is such a "rare and catastrophic" thing, you may interest
>> Jeep in buying the old girl from you so they can "study it". Try that angle.
>> Tell Jeep you will donate the motor to their "Field Failure Analysis
>> Engineers" for the cost of a new motor plus $5000.

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

Hi Lon,
I'm just guessing but, it must dissolve in gasoline and not be in
granular form to be not lighter than, nor heavier than gasoline to be
sucked up by the fuel pump inlet, and pass through the filter. And also
I'm guessing it's the the reaction with heat like making rock candy on
the stove that solidifies it.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Lon Stowell wrote:
>
> Does the sugar dissolve in any water [or gas] to get past the
> fuel filters and avoid clogging an injector open?

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

I so love living in an area that I don't have to bribe my way through that
damn state inspection anymore! Maybe there is a good point to living in this
mosquito-swamp after all.




"Robert Bills" <rdbillsjr@aol.comxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:20030716141449.07602.00000008@mb-m14.aol.com...
> >I have an 01TJ and the FSM say the cat (er cats) is to last the lifetime
> >of the vehicle. What is the proposed lifetime anyway?
>
>
> Cats last until you smash 'em, or until you can't pass smog unless you
change
> them. Sometimes they barely last 70,000 miles, sometimes they last twice
that.
>
>
>
> Robert Bills
> KG6LMV
> Orange County CA
>
> http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep/...p-l/billsr.htm
> http://www.RobertBills.com

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

linseed oil works better.

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3F15ABC2.188F1E6D@cox.net...
> Sugar melts then solidifies, sticks on the valve guides and holds
> them open, causes no damage to the engine, other than someone's got to
> take it apart to clean it. As expensive as rebuilding the engine.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Jamie wrote:
> >
> > Sugar in the gas tank?
> >
> > Anyway, since this is such a "rare and catastrophic" thing, you may
interest
> > Jeep in buying the old girl from you so they can "study it". Try that
angle.
> > Tell Jeep you will donate the motor to their "Field Failure Analysis
> > Engineers" for the cost of a new motor plus $5000.

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

Does sugar dissolve enough in gasoline that it can make it
past any fuel filters, avoid jamming a fuel injector open,
etc. etc. ?

Perhaps someone dropped a few spoons of permanganate, perchlorate,
etc. in the old fuel tank.

Just a bad piston that made it thru the warranty period?
Would think they'd hear pinging enough to blow a hole in
a piston long before that happened but my only experiences
with that are a turbo corvair and a 427 chev motor that
somehow picked up a piece of metal or something on top
of one of the pistons.


L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> Sugar melts then solidifies, sticks on the valve guides and holds
> them open, causes no damage to the engine, other than someone's got to
> take it apart to clean it. As expensive as rebuilding the engine.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Jamie wrote:
>>
>> Sugar in the gas tank?
>>
>> Anyway, since this is such a "rare and catastrophic" thing, you may interest
>> Jeep in buying the old girl from you so they can "study it". Try that angle.
>> Tell Jeep you will donate the motor to their "Field Failure Analysis
>> Engineers" for the cost of a new motor plus $5000.

Re: '99 GC Engine Explodes ... information needed
 

Lon Stowell <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
<LuiRa.79734$Ph3.8093@sccrnsc04>,

>Does sugar dissolve enough in gasoline that it can make it
>past any fuel filters, avoid jamming a fuel injector open,
>etc. etc. ?

No. But that won't stop folks from making up stories about sugar in
the gastank. I suppose, if you dump enough sugar into the tank, that
you could restrict the fuel flow out of the tank, but that's about it.