Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Thanks again Jerry.
Might have something here. Check me out.
The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting here
on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
ground.
Sound like a bad coil to you?

"Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is developing.
> Definitely check that.
>
> As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
pressure
> with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is no
> CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on, but
no
> continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on the
> fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse. It
> doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
>
> Hope you have a fruitful morning.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > I made some comments below.
> >
> > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> worry
> > > about the ASR.
> >
> > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> >
> > >
> > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
PCM
> > will
> > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay, interrupting
> > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > condition).
> >
> > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> morning,
> > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > vehicles
> > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was caused
by
> > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> there
> > is
> > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> ground
> > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due to
> the
> > > extra conductivity of the air.
> >
> > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
steadily
> > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
that
> > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned out
> to
> > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
but
> > run well once started?
> >
> > >
> > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
if
> > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
out.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I can't
> > evern
> > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > >
> > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted out
> the
> > > > 'base'
> > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > another
> > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high points
on
> > it.
> > > > This
> > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it to
> have
> > 6
> > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> reference
> > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
part:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
the
> > > > shaft.
> > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
least
> > > gave
> > > > a
> > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> start.
> > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way too.
> > > > > >Denny
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
common
> > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed to
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Based on my memory of old, round coils, which is fading faster these days,
there shouldn't be any continuity between the primary (spade terminals) and
secondary (coil wire terminal) sides of the coil. The spark is caused by
the collapse of the primary field, and if it were shorted to the secondary
side, there would be no field to collapse.

I say the coil is good, at least in the electrical sense.

Jerry

"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks again Jerry.
> Might have something here. Check me out.
> The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
> connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
here
> on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
> ground.
> Sound like a bad coil to you?
>
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
developing.
> > Definitely check that.
> >
> > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> pressure
> > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
no
> > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
but
> no
> > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
the
> > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
It
> > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> >
> > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > I made some comments below.
> > >
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> > worry
> > > > about the ASR.
> > >
> > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
> PCM
> > > will
> > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
interrupting
> > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > condition).
> > >
> > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > morning,
> > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > vehicles
> > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
caused
> by
> > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> > there
> > > is
> > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > ground
> > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due
to
> > the
> > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > >
> > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> steadily
> > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
> that
> > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
out
> > to
> > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
> but
> > > run well once started?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
> if
> > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
> out.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
can't
> > > evern
> > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
out
> > the
> > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > > another
> > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
points
> on
> > > it.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
to
> > have
> > > 6
> > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > reference
> > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> part:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> least
> > > > gave
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > start.
> > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
too.
> > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> common
> > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
to
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Based on my memory of old, round coils, which is fading faster these days,
there shouldn't be any continuity between the primary (spade terminals) and
secondary (coil wire terminal) sides of the coil. The spark is caused by
the collapse of the primary field, and if it were shorted to the secondary
side, there would be no field to collapse.

I say the coil is good, at least in the electrical sense.

Jerry

"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks again Jerry.
> Might have something here. Check me out.
> The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
> connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
here
> on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
> ground.
> Sound like a bad coil to you?
>
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
developing.
> > Definitely check that.
> >
> > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> pressure
> > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
no
> > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
but
> no
> > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
the
> > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
It
> > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> >
> > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > I made some comments below.
> > >
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> > worry
> > > > about the ASR.
> > >
> > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
> PCM
> > > will
> > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
interrupting
> > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > condition).
> > >
> > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > morning,
> > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > vehicles
> > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
caused
> by
> > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> > there
> > > is
> > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > ground
> > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due
to
> > the
> > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > >
> > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> steadily
> > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
> that
> > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
out
> > to
> > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
> but
> > > run well once started?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
> if
> > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
> out.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
can't
> > > evern
> > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
out
> > the
> > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > > another
> > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
points
> on
> > > it.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
to
> > have
> > > 6
> > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > reference
> > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> part:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> least
> > > > gave
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > start.
> > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
too.
> > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> common
> > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
to
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Based on my memory of old, round coils, which is fading faster these days,
there shouldn't be any continuity between the primary (spade terminals) and
secondary (coil wire terminal) sides of the coil. The spark is caused by
the collapse of the primary field, and if it were shorted to the secondary
side, there would be no field to collapse.

I say the coil is good, at least in the electrical sense.

Jerry

"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks again Jerry.
> Might have something here. Check me out.
> The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
> connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
here
> on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
> ground.
> Sound like a bad coil to you?
>
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
developing.
> > Definitely check that.
> >
> > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> pressure
> > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
no
> > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
but
> no
> > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
the
> > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
It
> > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> >
> > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > I made some comments below.
> > >
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> > worry
> > > > about the ASR.
> > >
> > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
> PCM
> > > will
> > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
interrupting
> > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > condition).
> > >
> > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > morning,
> > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > vehicles
> > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
caused
> by
> > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> > there
> > > is
> > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > ground
> > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due
to
> > the
> > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > >
> > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> steadily
> > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
> that
> > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
out
> > to
> > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
> but
> > > run well once started?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
> if
> > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
> out.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
can't
> > > evern
> > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
out
> > the
> > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > > another
> > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
points
> on
> > > it.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
to
> > have
> > > 6
> > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > reference
> > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> part:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> least
> > > > gave
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > start.
> > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
too.
> > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> common
> > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
to
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Nevermind. I've had this coil on my desk staring at me, waitin gfor my son
to take me to the car store. Now I get a 20,300 ohm reading between the
tower connector and the primary spade connectors which would indicate it's
okay.
The CPS checked okay by the way with infinity between pins B & C.
Think I'll take the coil to the car store anyway and have them look at it.
Am I back to square one?
Oh, the fuel pressure was good at key on, it held at 32 PSI through
cranking. It also held for over an hour now without dropping appreciably.


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks again Jerry.
> Might have something here. Check me out.
> The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
> connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
here
> on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
> ground.
> Sound like a bad coil to you?
>
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
developing.
> > Definitely check that.
> >
> > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> pressure
> > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
no
> > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
but
> no
> > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
the
> > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
It
> > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> >
> > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > I made some comments below.
> > >
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> > worry
> > > > about the ASR.
> > >
> > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
> PCM
> > > will
> > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
interrupting
> > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > condition).
> > >
> > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > morning,
> > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > vehicles
> > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
caused
> by
> > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> > there
> > > is
> > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > ground
> > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due
to
> > the
> > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > >
> > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> steadily
> > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
> that
> > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
out
> > to
> > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
> but
> > > run well once started?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
> if
> > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
> out.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
can't
> > > evern
> > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
out
> > the
> > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > > another
> > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
points
> on
> > > it.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
to
> > have
> > > 6
> > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > reference
> > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> part:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> least
> > > > gave
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > start.
> > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
too.
> > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> common
> > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
to
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Nevermind. I've had this coil on my desk staring at me, waitin gfor my son
to take me to the car store. Now I get a 20,300 ohm reading between the
tower connector and the primary spade connectors which would indicate it's
okay.
The CPS checked okay by the way with infinity between pins B & C.
Think I'll take the coil to the car store anyway and have them look at it.
Am I back to square one?
Oh, the fuel pressure was good at key on, it held at 32 PSI through
cranking. It also held for over an hour now without dropping appreciably.


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks again Jerry.
> Might have something here. Check me out.
> The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
> connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
here
> on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
> ground.
> Sound like a bad coil to you?
>
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
developing.
> > Definitely check that.
> >
> > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> pressure
> > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
no
> > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
but
> no
> > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
the
> > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
It
> > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> >
> > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > I made some comments below.
> > >
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> > worry
> > > > about the ASR.
> > >
> > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
> PCM
> > > will
> > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
interrupting
> > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > condition).
> > >
> > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > morning,
> > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > vehicles
> > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
caused
> by
> > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> > there
> > > is
> > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > ground
> > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due
to
> > the
> > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > >
> > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> steadily
> > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
> that
> > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
out
> > to
> > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
> but
> > > run well once started?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
> if
> > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
> out.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
can't
> > > evern
> > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
out
> > the
> > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > > another
> > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
points
> on
> > > it.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
to
> > have
> > > 6
> > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > reference
> > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> part:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> least
> > > > gave
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > start.
> > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
too.
> > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> common
> > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
to
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Nevermind. I've had this coil on my desk staring at me, waitin gfor my son
to take me to the car store. Now I get a 20,300 ohm reading between the
tower connector and the primary spade connectors which would indicate it's
okay.
The CPS checked okay by the way with infinity between pins B & C.
Think I'll take the coil to the car store anyway and have them look at it.
Am I back to square one?
Oh, the fuel pressure was good at key on, it held at 32 PSI through
cranking. It also held for over an hour now without dropping appreciably.


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Thanks again Jerry.
> Might have something here. Check me out.
> The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the tower
> connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
here
> on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing or
> ground.
> Sound like a bad coil to you?
>
> "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
developing.
> > Definitely check that.
> >
> > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> pressure
> > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
no
> > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
but
> no
> > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing? Just
> > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
the
> > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
It
> > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> >
> > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > I made some comments below.
> > >
> > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil, fuel
> > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure, don't
> > worry
> > > > about the ASR.
> > >
> > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position sensor,
> PCM
> > > will
> > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
interrupting
> > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > condition).
> > >
> > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > morning,
> > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > vehicles
> > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
caused
> by
> > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common). When
> > there
> > > is
> > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > ground
> > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil due
to
> > the
> > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > >
> > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> steadily
> > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder. Does
> that
> > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
out
> > to
> > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting problems
> but
> > > run well once started?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and see
> if
> > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging it
> out.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
can't
> > > evern
> > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
out
> > the
> > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups is
> > > another
> > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
points
> on
> > > it.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
to
> > have
> > > 6
> > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > reference
> > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> part:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent of
> the
> > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> least
> > > > gave
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > start.
> > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
too.
> > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> common
> > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
to
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Sheesh, I would probably gamble the 15 bucks or whatever and put a new coil
in. Cheap insurance. The next thing that I would look for would be an
actual spark, and/or an actual injector pulse. Put a test light across any
injector connector, it should flash as you crank. DVOM won't pick it up, it
is too fast.

Jerry


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:NcGJb.203556$Eq1.185889@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Nevermind. I've had this coil on my desk staring at me, waitin gfor my son
> to take me to the car store. Now I get a 20,300 ohm reading between the
> tower connector and the primary spade connectors which would indicate it's
> okay.
> The CPS checked okay by the way with infinity between pins B & C.
> Think I'll take the coil to the car store anyway and have them look at it.
> Am I back to square one?
> Oh, the fuel pressure was good at key on, it held at 32 PSI through
> cranking. It also held for over an hour now without dropping appreciably.
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Thanks again Jerry.
> > Might have something here. Check me out.
> > The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> > I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the
tower
> > connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
> here
> > on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing
or
> > ground.
> > Sound like a bad coil to you?
> >
> > "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
> developing.
> > > Definitely check that.
> > >
> > > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> > pressure
> > > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
> no
> > > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
> but
> > no
> > > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing?
Just
> > > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
> the
> > > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
> It
> > > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> > >
> > > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > > I made some comments below.
> > > >
> > > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil,
fuel
> > > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure,
don't
> > > worry
> > > > > about the ASR.
> > > >
> > > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position
sensor,
> > PCM
> > > > will
> > > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
> interrupting
> > > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > > condition).
> > > >
> > > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > > morning,
> > > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > > vehicles
> > > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
> caused
> > by
> > > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common).
When
> > > there
> > > > is
> > > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > > ground
> > > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil
due
> to
> > > the
> > > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > > >
> > > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> > steadily
> > > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder.
Does
> > that
> > > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
> out
> > > to
> > > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting
problems
> > but
> > > > run well once started?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and
see
> > if
> > > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging
it
> > out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
> can't
> > > > evern
> > > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in
message
> > > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups
is
> > > > another
> > > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
> points
> > on
> > > > it.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
> to
> > > have
> > > > 6
> > > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > > reference
> > > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> > part:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent
of
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> > least
> > > > > gave
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > > start.
> > > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
> too.
> > > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> > common
> > > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > shaft.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Sheesh, I would probably gamble the 15 bucks or whatever and put a new coil
in. Cheap insurance. The next thing that I would look for would be an
actual spark, and/or an actual injector pulse. Put a test light across any
injector connector, it should flash as you crank. DVOM won't pick it up, it
is too fast.

Jerry


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:NcGJb.203556$Eq1.185889@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Nevermind. I've had this coil on my desk staring at me, waitin gfor my son
> to take me to the car store. Now I get a 20,300 ohm reading between the
> tower connector and the primary spade connectors which would indicate it's
> okay.
> The CPS checked okay by the way with infinity between pins B & C.
> Think I'll take the coil to the car store anyway and have them look at it.
> Am I back to square one?
> Oh, the fuel pressure was good at key on, it held at 32 PSI through
> cranking. It also held for over an hour now without dropping appreciably.
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Thanks again Jerry.
> > Might have something here. Check me out.
> > The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> > I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the
tower
> > connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
> here
> > on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing
or
> > ground.
> > Sound like a bad coil to you?
> >
> > "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
> developing.
> > > Definitely check that.
> > >
> > > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> > pressure
> > > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
> no
> > > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
> but
> > no
> > > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing?
Just
> > > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
> the
> > > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
> It
> > > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> > >
> > > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > > I made some comments below.
> > > >
> > > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil,
fuel
> > > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure,
don't
> > > worry
> > > > > about the ASR.
> > > >
> > > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position
sensor,
> > PCM
> > > > will
> > > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
> interrupting
> > > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > > condition).
> > > >
> > > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > > morning,
> > > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > > vehicles
> > > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
> caused
> > by
> > > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common).
When
> > > there
> > > > is
> > > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > > ground
> > > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil
due
> to
> > > the
> > > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > > >
> > > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> > steadily
> > > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder.
Does
> > that
> > > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
> out
> > > to
> > > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting
problems
> > but
> > > > run well once started?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and
see
> > if
> > > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging
it
> > out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
> can't
> > > > evern
> > > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in
message
> > > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups
is
> > > > another
> > > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
> points
> > on
> > > > it.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
> to
> > > have
> > > > 6
> > > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > > reference
> > > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> > part:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent
of
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> > least
> > > > > gave
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > > start.
> > > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
> too.
> > > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> > common
> > > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > shaft.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: '93 GCherokee 6 Hard Start
 

Sheesh, I would probably gamble the 15 bucks or whatever and put a new coil
in. Cheap insurance. The next thing that I would look for would be an
actual spark, and/or an actual injector pulse. Put a test light across any
injector connector, it should flash as you crank. DVOM won't pick it up, it
is too fast.

Jerry


"D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
news:NcGJb.203556$Eq1.185889@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Nevermind. I've had this coil on my desk staring at me, waitin gfor my son
> to take me to the car store. Now I get a 20,300 ohm reading between the
> tower connector and the primary spade connectors which would indicate it's
> okay.
> The CPS checked okay by the way with infinity between pins B & C.
> Think I'll take the coil to the car store anyway and have them look at it.
> Am I back to square one?
> Oh, the fuel pressure was good at key on, it held at 32 PSI through
> cranking. It also held for over an hour now without dropping appreciably.
>
>
> "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> news:eXEJb.203100$Eq1.22175@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Thanks again Jerry.
> > Might have something here. Check me out.
> > The coil. I get .9 to 1.0 ohm between the spade terminals. Seems ok.
> > I get infinity or open between either of the spade connectors to the
tower
> > connector where the coild connects from the distributor. Got it setting
> here
> > on my desk. I also get open between the tower connector and the housing
or
> > ground.
> > Sound like a bad coil to you?
> >
> > "Jerry Newton" <fig@mcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff6c882_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > Yeah, a coil can gradually degrade, particularly if a crack is
> developing.
> > > Definitely check that.
> > >
> > > As far as the fuel pressure goes, be careful: you should have fuel
> > pressure
> > > with key on, and while cranking, but ASD will shut it down if there is
> no
> > > CPS signal. So, you may have fuel pressure when you turn the key on,
> but
> > no
> > > continuation of fuel pressure, and no spark as well, due to ASD
> > > deactivation, with a root cause of CPS failure. Sound confusing?
Just
> > > think like the box does. If you were the computer, you would turn on
> the
> > > fuel pump at key on, then shut it off if you had no crankshaft pulse.
> It
> > > doesn't know the engine is turning if that CPS isn't doing its thing.
> > >
> > > Hope you have a fruitful morning.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > news:O8sJb.27928$fq1.3000@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > Great information Jerry. Thanks for both of your posts.
> > > > I'm getting excited to go out and work on her in the morning again.
> > > > I made some comments below.
> > > >
> > > > "Jerry Newton" <figatmcttelecom.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3ff61c3d_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > > > > 1. Auto Shutdown Relay (ASR) provides power to fuel pump, coil,
fuel
> > > > > injectors, and O2 sensor heaters. If you have fuel pressure,
don't
> > > worry
> > > > > about the ASR.
> > > >
> > > > I do have good fuel pressure. There's the ASR eliminated. Great!
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. If PCM does not sense input from the crankshaft position
sensor,
> > PCM
> > > > will
> > > > > deactivate Automatic Shutdown (ASD) and fuel pump relay,
> interrupting
> > > > > voltage to fuel pump, fuel injectors, and ignition coil, (no start
> > > > > condition).
> > > >
> > > > Since I do get good fuel pressure, and I will check it again in the
> > > morning,
> > > > this tells me the PCM is hearing from the CPS then.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. For what it is worth.... I have seen several different makes of
> > > > vehicles
> > > > > exhibit a condition of no start when humid or cold, and it was
> caused
> > by
> > > > > secondary ignition components (spark plug wires most common).
When
> > > there
> > > > is
> > > > > high humidity and you have substandard ignition parts, the path to
> > > ground
> > > > > becomes much more convenient via a cracked wire or cracked coil
due
> to
> > > the
> > > > > extra conductivity of the air.
> > > >
> > > > If you've missed the whole thread, this no start problem has been
> > steadily
> > > > getting worse over the last month when it started to get colder.
Does
> > that
> > > > info sway your thoughts in any way?
> > > > At about 60K miles, the car died in the road with no warning. Turned
> out
> > > to
> > > > be the coil. Will a coil gradually degrade to cause starting
problems
> > but
> > > > run well once started?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Go and check that CPS on the HZ range or the AC volts range, and
see
> > if
> > > > > anything is going on with it. You can condemn it before digging
it
> > out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:FVnJb.4898$VV4.667@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > > > > Heh, thanks Matt.
> > > > > > Lord knows I've never come across 'reluctor' before.
> > > > > > Oh well, I'm about to give up on this old gal for the night. I
> can't
> > > > evern
> > > > > > interpret a digital VOM now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Matt Osborn" <msosborn@spam_trap@attglobal.net> wrote in
message
> > > > > > news:odvbvvg907d3n1dvr6etridnktqpq3e2gh@4ax.com...
> > > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:14:16 -0600, "D" <dpfer@r.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Doug,
> > > > > > > >Yes, I took off the cap, rotor and the two bolts, then lifted
> out
> > > the
> > > > > > 'base'
> > > > > > > >as you say. I called it the plate/cover.
> > > > > > > >The stator is in place and appears ok.
> > > > > > > >Now, around the shaft itself, level with the stator pickups
is
> > > > another
> > > > > > > >piece. It has 5 (yes i just counted them) ridges or high
> points
> > on
> > > > it.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > >piece rotates around the shaft quite freely. I had assumed it
> to
> > > have
> > > > 6
> > > > > > > >'ridges' and thought it might have something to do with the
> > > reference
> > > > > > > >signal. I called it a 'reluctor' as it closely resembles this
> > part:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiB...en_us/0900823d
> > > > > > /80/04/d0/5d/0900823d8004d05d.jsp
> > > > > > > >and they refer to it as that. Anyway, it rotates independent
of
> > the
> > > > > > shaft.
> > > > > > > >Beautiful day today and I'm about to lose it. The old girl at
> > least
> > > > > gave
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >huff or two on bad says. Today it gives no sign of wanting to
> > > start.
> > > > > > > >Thanks again Doug. Great page to add to your site by the way
> too.
> > > > > > > >Denny
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not a mechanic and I've never seen a reluctor before but
> > common
> > > > > > > sense tells me to agree with you. The reluctor should be fixed
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > shaft.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>