|
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > down or the wrong one. > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > the orientation of the return line. FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > at the back one too... > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > times.) > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > Florence, SC > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > down or the wrong one. > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > the orientation of the return line. FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > at the back one too... > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > times.) > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > Florence, SC > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>...
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > down or the wrong one. > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > the orientation of the return line. FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > at the back one too... > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > times.) > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > Florence, SC > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
and see what happens. If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or a torn diaphragm on the pump. Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long it has had 12 volts. Mike "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > the orientation of the return line. > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > > at the back one too... > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > times.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob > > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > Florence, SC > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
and see what happens. If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or a torn diaphragm on the pump. Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long it has had 12 volts. Mike "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > the orientation of the return line. > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > > at the back one too... > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > times.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob > > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > Florence, SC > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb
and see what happens. If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or a torn diaphragm on the pump. Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long it has had 12 volts. Mike "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > the orientation of the return line. > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > > at the back one too... > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > times.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bob > > > > > > > Mike > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > Florence, SC > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one). -- Jim -- 98 TJ SE 90 SJ GW http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98 "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca... > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > a torn diaphragm on the pump. > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > it has had 12 volts. > > Mike > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > > the orientation of the return line. > > > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > > > at the back one too... > > > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > > times.) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > > Florence, SC > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one). -- Jim -- 98 TJ SE 90 SJ GW http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98 "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca... > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > a torn diaphragm on the pump. > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > it has had 12 volts. > > Mike > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > > the orientation of the return line. > > > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > > > at the back one too... > > > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > > times.) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > > Florence, SC > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a
good alternative (with the exception of a manual one). -- Jim -- 98 TJ SE 90 SJ GW http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98 "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca... > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > a torn diaphragm on the pump. > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > it has had 12 volts. > > Mike > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in upside > > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return line > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor lock > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. If > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > > the orientation of the return line. > > > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause the > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really drip > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A visual > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas line, > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, usually > > > > at the back one too... > > > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > > times.) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of > > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > > Florence, SC > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I went manual, it works great for me up here in Canada. I can leave it
set on 1200 or 1500 rpm and drive away. As it 'really' warms up, I drop it down. Mike TJim wrote: > > Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a > good alternative (with the exception of a manual one). > > -- > Jim > -- > 98 TJ SE > 90 SJ GW > http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98 > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca... > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > and see what happens. > > > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > > a torn diaphragm on the pump. > > > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? > > > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > > it has had 12 volts. > > > > Mike > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message > news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in > upside > > > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return > line > > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor > lock > > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. > If > > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > > > the orientation of the return line. > > > > > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > > > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause > the > > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really > drip > > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A > visual > > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas > line, > > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, > usually > > > > > at the back one too... > > > > > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > > > times.) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have > probably > > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep > has > > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave > at > > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet > talk > > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket > of > > > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 > times > > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those > little > > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are > bent > > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. > The > > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away > from > > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug > wires > > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec > (though it > > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the > hose > > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right > before I > > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 > minutes). > > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. > I > > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck > if > > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open > before > > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out > the > > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will > summon > > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always > work, > > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is > there a > > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get > muddy > > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent > mudpuddle, I > > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even > take > > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But > the > > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work > clothes > > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their > mercedes > > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good > mechanic, > > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even > before I > > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the > throat > > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any > sign of > > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has > left > > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being > lean. > > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand > most > > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is > quite > > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that > it > > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates > are > > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning > starts, > > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting > in > > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems > with > > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual > fuel > > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop > the > > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most > recent > > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > > > Florence, SC > > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I went manual, it works great for me up here in Canada. I can leave it
set on 1200 or 1500 rpm and drive away. As it 'really' warms up, I drop it down. Mike TJim wrote: > > Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a > good alternative (with the exception of a manual one). > > -- > Jim > -- > 98 TJ SE > 90 SJ GW > http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98 > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca... > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > and see what happens. > > > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > > a torn diaphragm on the pump. > > > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? > > > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > > it has had 12 volts. > > > > Mike > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message > news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in > upside > > > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return > line > > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor > lock > > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. > If > > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > > > the orientation of the return line. > > > > > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > > > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause > the > > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really > drip > > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A > visual > > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas > line, > > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, > usually > > > > > at the back one too... > > > > > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > > > times.) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have > probably > > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep > has > > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave > at > > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet > talk > > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket > of > > > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 > times > > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those > little > > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are > bent > > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. > The > > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away > from > > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug > wires > > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec > (though it > > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the > hose > > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right > before I > > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 > minutes). > > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. > I > > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck > if > > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open > before > > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out > the > > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will > summon > > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always > work, > > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is > there a > > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get > muddy > > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent > mudpuddle, I > > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even > take > > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But > the > > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work > clothes > > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their > mercedes > > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good > mechanic, > > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even > before I > > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the > throat > > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any > sign of > > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has > left > > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being > lean. > > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand > most > > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is > quite > > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that > it > > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates > are > > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning > starts, > > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting > in > > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems > with > > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual > fuel > > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop > the > > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most > recent > > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > > > Florence, SC > > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I went manual, it works great for me up here in Canada. I can leave it
set on 1200 or 1500 rpm and drive away. As it 'really' warms up, I drop it down. Mike TJim wrote: > > Yeah, I hate those. I have one on my Grand Waggy and I wish I could find a > good alternative (with the exception of a manual one). > > -- > Jim > -- > 98 TJ SE > 90 SJ GW > http://www.delawareja.com/gallery/JDJeep98 > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca... > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > and see what happens. > > > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > > a torn diaphragm on the pump. > > > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? > > > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > > it has had 12 volts. > > > > Mike > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > averyislandboy@yahoo.com (averyislandboy@yahoo.com) wrote in message > news:<a188e6f3.0310061659.7b993a15@posting.google. com>... > > > > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:<3F81672D.DCA34F40@sympatico.ca>... > > > > > You sure sound like you are describing a gas filter that is in > upside > > > > > down or the wrong one. > > > > > > > > > > The stock gas filter has two outlets. The center outlet goes to the > > > > > carb and the 'top' outlet goes to the return line. If the return > line > > > > > isn't at the top, gas will syphon back to the tank causing a vapor > lock > > > > > on the lines. This makes it a real bugger to start after sitting. > If > > > > > they are side by side, then it depends on the angle you park at. > > > > > > > > > > The filter is also supposed to be horizontal from end to end. > > > > > > > > The problem appeared some months after the fuel filter was replaced. > > > > I'm pretty sure it is hooked up as you describe, though I will verify > > > > the orientation of the return line. > > > > > > FYI, the return line isn't all the way at the top, but it's between 10 > > > and 11 o'lock. Checked it today between botched start-up attempts. I > > > made the mistake of jumping right in and turning it over. That works > > > before 10 am, not after lunch for sure. So I get out lift the cleaner > > > assembly enough to put my rubber hose to work and yowzers if the > > > stupid choke isn't completely closed. It's 83 deg outside! So I put > > > the hose in, jam the pedal down and crank and crank and crank -- not > > > even a cough. So I leave the hose in place with air cleaner off and > > > go check some on some things in the lab and come back 45 minutes > > > later. Again, pedal down (I figured I haven't tried much of this > > > lately and maybe I should revisit it). The first crank it pops once > > > and then dies. Crank, crank, crank. Thinking maybe I've run it dry, > > > I pump once and crank, crank. Twice more, crank, crank, crank. Start > > > smelling gas, so I go back inside to post this message. I'm really > > > freaking out now. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing > > > here. Maybe not. Oh well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A pinhole leak in the gas line from the pump to the tank can cause > the > > > > > same thing. That is the suction line, so a small leak won't really > drip > > > > > out on the ground, but it will let air into it when it sits. A > visual > > > > > inspection can find that, look for a small wet stain on the gas > line, > > > > > usually close to one of the clamps that holds it to the frame, > usually > > > > > at the back one too... > > > > > > > > > I assume that the net result would be that the fuel supply side would > > > > be dry, but I have plenty of fuel in line to the carb. I'm afraid > > > > there's too much actually. I will check, but I have already inspected > > > > the line just as a matter of course (i.e., desparation really. I like > > > > problems that jump out at you, so I look everything over a couple of > > > > times.) > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have > probably > > > > > > replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The > > > > > > problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep > has > > > > > > sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave > at > > > > > > the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet > talk > > > > > > and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket > of > > > > > > bolts -- so here I am. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 > times > > > > > > now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those > little > > > > > > freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are > bent > > > > > > to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. > The > > > > > > fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away > from > > > > > > the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug > wires > > > > > > are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec > (though it > > > > > > may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the > > > > > > timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the > hose > > > > > > plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right > before I > > > > > > have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 > minutes). > > > > > > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, > > > > > > sometimes at noon. > > > > > > > > > > > > The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. > I > > > > > > took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct > > > > > > times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck > if > > > > > > I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open > before > > > > > > I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out > the > > > > > > chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will > summon > > > > > > the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always > work, > > > > > > however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the > > > > > > freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is > there a > > > > > > special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get > muddy > > > > > > sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent > mudpuddle, I > > > > > > always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even > take > > > > > > my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But > the > > > > > > good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work > clothes > > > > > > bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their > mercedes > > > > > > and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good > mechanic, > > > > > > but this makes me feel like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old > > > > > > siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even > before I > > > > > > crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle > > > > > > only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the > throat > > > > > > of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any > sign of > > > > > > diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has > left > > > > > > me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being > lean. > > > > > > The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand > most > > > > > > days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is > quite > > > > > > strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful > > > > > > cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that > it > > > > > > lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates > are > > > > > > equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the > > > > > > torture of it all. > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning > starts, > > > > > > but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting > in > > > > > > the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the > > > > > > original problem and have been creating a succession of problems > with > > > > > > each new attempt at ultimate correction. > > > > > > My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too > > > > > > high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake > > > > > > throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual > fuel > > > > > > pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the > > > > > > float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop > the > > > > > > float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most > recent > > > > > > change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Versluys > > > > > > Florence, SC > > > > > > '88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity:
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity:
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity:
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
LOL!
Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Lon Stowell wrote: > > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: > > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > and see what happens. > > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
LOL!
Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Lon Stowell wrote: > > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: > > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > and see what happens. > > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
LOL!
Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Lon Stowell wrote: > > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: > > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > and see what happens. > > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Ignition module.
In message <a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com>, "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: >I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably >replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The >problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has >sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at >the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk >and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of >bolts -- so here I am. > >I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times >now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little >freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent >to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The >fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from >the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires >are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it >may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the >timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose >plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > >Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I >have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, >sometimes at noon. > >The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I >took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct >times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if >I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before >I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the >chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon >the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, >however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the >freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a >special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy >sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I >always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take >my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the >good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes >bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes >and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, >but this makes me feel like an idiot. > >I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old >siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I >crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle >only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat >of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of >diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left >me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. >The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most >days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite >strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful >cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it >lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are >equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the >torture of it all. > >A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, >but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in >the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the >original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with >each new attempt at ultimate correction. >My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too >high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake >throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel >pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the >float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the >float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent >change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > >Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > >Bob Versluys >Florence, SC >'88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Ignition module.
In message <a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com>, "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: >I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably >replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The >problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has >sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at >the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk >and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of >bolts -- so here I am. > >I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times >now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little >freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent >to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The >fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from >the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires >are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it >may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the >timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose >plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > >Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I >have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, >sometimes at noon. > >The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I >took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct >times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if >I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before >I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the >chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon >the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, >however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the >freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a >special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy >sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I >always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take >my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the >good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes >bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes >and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, >but this makes me feel like an idiot. > >I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old >siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I >crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle >only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat >of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of >diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left >me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. >The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most >days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite >strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful >cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it >lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are >equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the >torture of it all. > >A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, >but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in >the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the >original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with >each new attempt at ultimate correction. >My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too >high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake >throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel >pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the >float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the >float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent >change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > >Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > >Bob Versluys >Florence, SC >'88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Ignition module.
In message <a188e6f3.0310051753.11385c@posting.google.com>, "averyislandboy@yahoo.com" wrote: >I've been chasing this problem for many weeks now and have probably >replaced 90% the ignition-related components under the hood. The >problem manifests itself as a near-impossible start after the Jeep has >sat in my work parking lot all day. While I am anxious to leave at >the end of a long day, the old Jeep seems to want to stay. Sweet talk >and negotiation have also not carried the day with the old bucket of >bolts -- so here I am. > >I've cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted the carb to factory spec 3-4 times >now. And I'm not just talking float height. I check all those little >freaky measurements they suggest and make sure all linkages are bent >to spec. The rotor and distr cap are new. The fuel pump is new. The >fuel filter is new. The fuel lines are insulated and held away from >the block and exhaust manifold. The plugs are new. The plug wires >are new. The ignition coil resistances are to factory spec (though it >may be the next thing I replace). The compression is good and the >timing is per the spec on my hood underside (and check with the hose >plugged and the vacuum switch wire assembly unplugged). > >Sometimes it goes for days before reappearing (usually right before I >have an important meeting across campus I have to be at in 5 minutes). > Yes, it's not just at the end of the day, sometimes at 10:30, >sometimes at noon. > >The choke was out of whack, despite having the correct color key. I >took it to 2 notches lean and it seems to be closed at the correct >times (when it's cold). Nonetheless, I find that I have more luck if >I jam a small piece of rubber hose to hold it all the way open before >I start it. Faithful readers, please realize that I now whip out the >chunk of hose like it's some sort of magical talisman that will summon >the spirit of the Jeep back to life. The spell doesn't always work, >however, and I get to gaze, confused and forlorn, across the >freshly-waxed hood and wonder where it all went so wrong. Is there a >special form of Jeep karma that I am failing at. I let it get muddy >sometimes, I even intentionally dash through an innocent mudpuddle, I >always drive it with the top down on nice days. Sometimes I even take >my shirt off too, to share the glory of an exceptional day. But the >good times are forgotten so quickly when I'm in my nice work clothes >bent under the hood while my co-workers strut over to their mercedes >and BMW's and SUV's. I pride myself on being a pretty good mechanic, >but this makes me feel like an idiot. > >I'm sure I'm going to get a few helpful posts suggesting the old >siphon effect on the fuel bowl, but I've checked that. Even before I >crank the puppy, I take the air cleaner off and goose the throttle >only to see the two nicest little streams of petro jet down the throat >of my carby. I can do that a number of times before I see any sign of >diminished fuel supply. My extended battle with this problem has left >me thinking that it's more of an issue of flooding than being lean. >The small rubber hose gripped hopefully, desperately, in my hand most >days after work backs me up on this. Plus the odor of gas is quite >strong during my cranking, cranking, cranking -- oh the dreadful >cranking. I am constantly amazed at how good my battery is that it >lets me crank that 6-banger so many times. I'm sure my workmates are >equally impressed at how many days I can put myself through the >torture of it all. > >A bit more history on it: it started with troubled morning starts, >but now is pretty much exclusive to warm-weather starts (sitting in >the sun at greater than 75 deg F). I wonder if maybe I fixed the >original problem and have been creating a succession of problems with >each new attempt at ultimate correction. >My current theory is that perhaps the fuel bowl float is a bit too >high, allowing the gas in the bowl to slowly leak down the intake >throat whilst it is warmed in the sun. There would be residual fuel >pressure in the line that would refill the bowl a few times as the >float opened and closed the valve, I think. I am going to drop the >float an 1/8" or so, but wanted to get some time on the most recent >change (new plugs, again) before I changed something else. > >Please share you thoughts, or make an offer. > >Bob Versluys >Florence, SC >'88 Wrangler Sport Soft-top gray/red "Sadie" |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I was just thinking that if he has arms long enough to look down the
carb bore while starting he should be in the NBA! That, or huge calluses from dragging them on the ground as he walks... On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:50:14 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote: > LOL! > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > Lon Stowell wrote: > > > > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: > > > > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > > and see what happens. > > > > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, > > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So > > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face > > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be > > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I was just thinking that if he has arms long enough to look down the
carb bore while starting he should be in the NBA! That, or huge calluses from dragging them on the ground as he walks... On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:50:14 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote: > LOL! > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > Lon Stowell wrote: > > > > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: > > > > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > > and see what happens. > > > > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, > > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So > > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face > > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be > > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I was just thinking that if he has arms long enough to look down the
carb bore while starting he should be in the NBA! That, or huge calluses from dragging them on the ground as he walks... On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:50:14 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote: > LOL! > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > Lon Stowell wrote: > > > > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: > > > > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > > > and see what happens. > > > > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, > > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So > > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face > > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be > > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
You don't have a starter remote:
http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to jump the solenoid while working under the hood? God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > LOL! > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
You don't have a starter remote:
http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to jump the solenoid while working under the hood? God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > LOL! > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
You don't have a starter remote:
http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to jump the solenoid while working under the hood? God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > LOL! > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I have a buddy that learned all about those starter remotes the hard
way. He was turning it over and it started unexpectedly. It was in drive. He got run over and is now waiting for the second replacement hip to be put in after the first went bad on him... Mike "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote: > > You don't have a starter remote: > http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to > jump the solenoid while working under the hood? > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > LOL! > > > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I have a buddy that learned all about those starter remotes the hard
way. He was turning it over and it started unexpectedly. It was in drive. He got run over and is now waiting for the second replacement hip to be put in after the first went bad on him... Mike "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote: > > You don't have a starter remote: > http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to > jump the solenoid while working under the hood? > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > LOL! > > > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I have a buddy that learned all about those starter remotes the hard
way. He was turning it over and it started unexpectedly. It was in drive. He got run over and is now waiting for the second replacement hip to be put in after the first went bad on him... Mike "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote: > > You don't have a starter remote: > http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to > jump the solenoid while working under the hood? > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > LOL! > > > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I know a friend like that too, however I'm still using the remote.
You can get to top dead center in seconds. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > I have a buddy that learned all about those starter remotes the hard > way. He was turning it over and it started unexpectedly. It was in > drive. He got run over and is now waiting for the second replacement > hip to be put in after the first went bad on him... > > Mike |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I know a friend like that too, however I'm still using the remote.
You can get to top dead center in seconds. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > I have a buddy that learned all about those starter remotes the hard > way. He was turning it over and it started unexpectedly. It was in > drive. He got run over and is now waiting for the second replacement > hip to be put in after the first went bad on him... > > Mike |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
I know a friend like that too, however I'm still using the remote.
You can get to top dead center in seconds. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Mike Romain wrote: > > I have a buddy that learned all about those starter remotes the hard > way. He was turning it over and it started unexpectedly. It was in > drive. He got run over and is now waiting for the second replacement > hip to be put in after the first went bad on him... > > Mike |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Geez, don't any of youze guys use remote starters? Aka the missus? Approximately 10/7/03 21:36, Will Honea uttered for posterity: > I was just thinking that if he has arms long enough to look down the > carb bore while starting he should be in the NBA! That, or huge > calluses from dragging them on the ground as he walks... > > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:50:14 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > >> LOL! >> >> Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> >> Lon Stowell wrote: >> > >> > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: >> > >> > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb >> > > and see what happens. >> > >> > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, >> > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So >> > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face >> > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be >> > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. > > |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Geez, don't any of youze guys use remote starters? Aka the missus? Approximately 10/7/03 21:36, Will Honea uttered for posterity: > I was just thinking that if he has arms long enough to look down the > carb bore while starting he should be in the NBA! That, or huge > calluses from dragging them on the ground as he walks... > > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:50:14 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > >> LOL! >> >> Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> >> Lon Stowell wrote: >> > >> > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: >> > >> > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb >> > > and see what happens. >> > >> > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, >> > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So >> > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face >> > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be >> > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. > > |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Geez, don't any of youze guys use remote starters? Aka the missus? Approximately 10/7/03 21:36, Will Honea uttered for posterity: > I was just thinking that if he has arms long enough to look down the > carb bore while starting he should be in the NBA! That, or huge > calluses from dragging them on the ground as he walks... > > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:50:14 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > >> LOL! >> >> Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's >> >> Lon Stowell wrote: >> > >> > Approximately 10/7/03 12:21, Mike Romain uttered for posterity: >> > >> > > Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb >> > > and see what happens. >> > >> > Unless you are absolutely certain that there will be no backfiring, >> > take the extra coupla seconds and put the air cleaner back on. So >> > far I have only managed to remove all the hair on my arm and face >> > ignoring this advice... Even if you are certain there will be >> > no backfiring, I'd still suggest it. > > |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Well, I learned early in life not to trust ANYONE when my butt is in
the line of fire - same reason arming crews wouldn't even approach my a/c unless both of my hands were visible on the canopy rail at all times. I do use a remote when I'm in the garage or specifically working on the thing but I don't carry it around for roadside/parking lot use. Besides, the MJ fenders are high enough that my poor, well-fed gut makes it uncomfortable to reach the solenoid for casual use. Another thing - the solenoid on the 4.0L is on the side opposite from the mainifolds so even with a screwdriver it's a stretch. I still have this instant image of Lon -------eagled over the front end reaching for the key... On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:18:10 UTC L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@cox.net> wrote: > You don't have a starter remote: > http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to > jump the solenoid while working under the hood? > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > LOL! > > > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Well, I learned early in life not to trust ANYONE when my butt is in
the line of fire - same reason arming crews wouldn't even approach my a/c unless both of my hands were visible on the canopy rail at all times. I do use a remote when I'm in the garage or specifically working on the thing but I don't carry it around for roadside/parking lot use. Besides, the MJ fenders are high enough that my poor, well-fed gut makes it uncomfortable to reach the solenoid for casual use. Another thing - the solenoid on the 4.0L is on the side opposite from the mainifolds so even with a screwdriver it's a stretch. I still have this instant image of Lon -------eagled over the front end reaching for the key... On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:18:10 UTC L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@cox.net> wrote: > You don't have a starter remote: > http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to > jump the solenoid while working under the hood? > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > LOL! > > > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Well, I learned early in life not to trust ANYONE when my butt is in
the line of fire - same reason arming crews wouldn't even approach my a/c unless both of my hands were visible on the canopy rail at all times. I do use a remote when I'm in the garage or specifically working on the thing but I don't carry it around for roadside/parking lot use. Besides, the MJ fenders are high enough that my poor, well-fed gut makes it uncomfortable to reach the solenoid for casual use. Another thing - the solenoid on the 4.0L is on the side opposite from the mainifolds so even with a screwdriver it's a stretch. I still have this instant image of Lon -------eagled over the front end reaching for the key... On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:18:10 UTC L.W.(ßill) ------ III <----------@cox.net> wrote: > You don't have a starter remote: > http://store4.yimg.com/I/rodi_1760_59299996 , or use a screwdriver to > jump the solenoid while working under the hood? > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ > > Mike Romain wrote: > > > > LOL! > > > > Damn man, I go sit in the drivers seat to start mine! > > > > Mike > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's -- Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> |
Re: '88 YJ 258 ci with carter Hard Warm Start
Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3F83124C.E7063767@sympatico.ca>...
> Jut try tossing a 1/8 cup or a couple tablespoons of gas down the carb > and see what happens. > > If it fires up, you have a hole in the gas line on the suction side of > the pump or a dead pump that is letting the gas backflow to the tank or > a torn diaphragm on the pump. The pump is brand new last month. > > Does the oil on the dipstick smell like gas? nope smells like SAE 30 > > Oh, the choke is an electric timer job. > > It will be totally closed after 5 minutes and opens according to how > long 12 volts has been going to it. Piece of crap actually because it > doesn't have a clue how hot or cold the engine really is, just how long > it has had 12 volts. I don't think the choke is the prime offender since I tend to wedge it open while trying to start it. > > Mike Well, I actually took the plug wrench with me on a day that it acted up. Which was totally out of the normal pattern because it was cold and rainy. It also didn't start right up this morning, which is atypical. It started a couple of times throughout the day, but when it came to going home time it would not start. The engine was still warm from having driven to the office from our pilot plant in the previous 45 minutes or so. I cranked and cranked. Pumped the gas a couple of times for giggles and cranked. No start. Aha! I have the plug wrench, pulled out old number 1 and Voila, the plug, much to my surprise was not wet. I could catch a faint whiff of petro when I put it to my nose, but that's it. I don't think that that's classic textbook flooded car "wet". So much for my theories to date. Not having a remote starter (my wife wasn't at work with me, and the cleaning lady had already gone home) I couldn't check if I had spark. I scratched my head for a while, cranked it once with the plug hanging over the alternator (not that I could even begin to see it from the driver's seat. I didn't have a screwdriver to jump my solenoid, just a 1/2" wrench and my socket driver which seemed like a bad idea on a rainy day). So I put the plug back in, crank it and doggone it if it doesn't start. Huh? Thankful (especially to Mike for encouraging me to verify if it was flooded) and confused, I drive home brainstorming new theories. What about if I had "weak spark"? I have checked the coil resistances and it's good, but what if my starter and solenoid are getting "worn" and sucking more juice than they should, that could drop the system voltage pretty low and without 11-12V, would the coil work right? I'm thinking about putting my spare battery in the passenger floor and wiring it directly into the coil to ensure it is seeing 12V. Whacked idea? Other suggestions? Like I've described, once the thing is started it runs fine, but when it's running, the alternator is keeping the coil at a happy 12-13V. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 PM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands