56 Willys to 93 S-10
 

I am in the process of mounting a 56 Willy's pickup to a 93 S-10 4x4 and I
may have bit off a little more than I can chew. To date, most of the work
has been limited to getting the S-10 ready to accept the new body and I am
looking at a couple of challenges that I can use some advice on.

First... the wheel base. The stats for the Willys show 118 inches and the
S-10 is 123(122.9). When I measure the Willys from front fender center to
rear fender center I get 115 inches. Where do I go from here. I am leaning
towards 118 and adjusting the box position to achieve the right fit. Is
this the correct approach?

Second is the cab position. I measured the Willys from the centre of the
front axle to the forward cab maounts at approx 22 inches. In order to
maintain this demension on the S-10, I would have to move the cab mounts
back a couple of inches. Any recommendations or cautions on this approach?

Re: 56 Willys to 93 S-10
 

Alex Lloyd wrote:

>I am in the process of mounting a 56 Willy's pickup to a 93 S-10 4x4 and I
>may have bit off a little more than I can chew. To date, most of the work
>has been limited to getting the S-10 ready to accept the new body and I am
>looking at a couple of challenges that I can use some advice on.
>
It's ALWAYS more than we can chew. You just learn to chew harder &
faster. ;)

>
>First... the wheel base. The stats for the Willys show 118 inches and the
>S-10 is 123(122.9). When I measure the Willys from front fender center to
>rear fender center I get 115 inches. Where do I go from here. I am leaning
>towards 118 and adjusting the box position to achieve the right fit. Is
>this the correct approach?
>
Yes. The Willys truck front fenders are open in front and allow some
wiggle room, but can make it hard to guess where things are supposed to
line up. They also actually sit forward of the axle centers, I think
that's where your difference is. Work from the axle centers out (that's
what the stats are measured from). Read on for more important stuff.
S-10 chassis are great platforms for repowers. You might be surprised
how many S-10 hotrod coupes there are running around. I'll be talking
from the perspective of a Toyota chassis under a Willys body, but the
concepts are the same no matter who made what.

>Second is the cab position. I measured the Willys from the centre of the
>front axle to the forward cab maounts at approx 22 inches. In order to
>maintain this demension on the S-10, I would have to move the cab mounts
>back a couple of inches. Any recommendations or cautions on this approach?
>
>
The cab mounts between the two truck is almost irrelevant. They might
line up, but you'll likely have to do some serious fabricating to mount
the bed & chassis and have everyting line up right. Measure the
difference between the front axle and your seating position in the cab
to get your starting point for everything that you have to put your
hands on and what you need to do as far as your shifter, pedals and
steering column. You have to drive this thing, so make sure all the
controls are in good position or you'll hate it when you're done. You
can re-engineer almost anything except the seating position by more than
an inch or two or you'll be looking out of the wing window, unable to
rest your arm on the window or something goofy like that. This is the
single biggest reason you see so many projects for sale that aren't done
- not taking the operator into account when building it. Start bolting
bucket seats in a cab that has original seats mounted on platforms and
it gets real interesting. I've seen some real messes that started with
the best intentions, but would take 3 or 4 times as much money/time to
fix as it would have to do it right the first time.

Most modern trucks have the firewall WAY forward of where the Willys
firewall is. On my project (a 50 Willys Wagon on an 88 Toyota 4x4
chassis), the Wagon firewall is around 8" forward of where the Toyota
firewall is with the seating position being the point of reference.
Everything has to be measured from there. Old truck have you sitting
upright with your feet right under your knees like you did as a kid on
Grandma's couch, compared to modern vehicles where you're stretched out
on the seat and your shins are at a 45 degree or lower angle. That means
you (like I) might have to have a custom made shifter for the transfer
case and tranny that reaches back 9", and comes up almost a foot. The
Toyota steering column (if mounted back on the same chassis geometry)
puts the steering wheel right against the windshield on the Wagon, so
the column needs to be lengthened almost a foot. The front cab mounts on
the Willys are almost exactly where the front cab mounts are on the
Toyota chassis, but those mounts are about a foot behind the firewall on
the donor and are actually outside & in front of the Willys firewall.
This might be where you're getting confused as far as your mounts &
chassis are concerned. One good thing about that is it will make
servicing the truck very easy with all that room around the V6 EFI
engine. Keep in mind that you'll also have to make sure you don't end up
getting in the way of the radiator core support with your engine.
Shouldn't be much of a problem as old straight 6 Willys motors are
actually much longer than a modern V6.

DON'T put a V8 in a Willys truck - you'll regret it. Read about it at
http://www.willysamerica.com and read the stuff about repowering Willys
trucks. The shape of the engine compartment doesn't get rid of the heat
a V8 makes very well with that big a block in that little square box
under your hood. The only way to increase the amount of air you can get
OUT of the engine bay is to cut open your front inner wheel wells, and
on the Willys trucks they're crucial for structural support of the
entire front end. My Wagon came with a SBC in it, and it's a total mess.

Also, you might be shocked at how much of a body lift you'll end up with
putting an old body on a modern chassis unless you're doing some serious
fabricating. You might decide that the best way to go would be to 'stub'
the chassis together the way older race cars & some hotrods are built.
That's what I'm doing. I'm using the front 1/3 of the Toyota chassis
(for it's superior suspension & steering geometry that I won't have to
mess with) and the rear 1/3 of the Willys frame (with the Toyota axle)
to get almost all of the body mounts from the original without messing
with my Wagon's floor. This will give me almost stock height - only
about a 1.5" body lift which is fine with the Toyota chassis. Beefy
looks with good road manners. I will of course have to box in the flimsy
50 year old "C" shaped Willys frame portion (the Toyo frame is
completely boxed stock).

Keep us all posted on how you're doing. Repowering a Willys isn't for
the faint of heart, but it's worth it to have something that cool that
you can also rely on every day AND safely drive at 75 mph. That's why
I'm doing it. No generic 'bubble truck' for us! ;D

Good luck,
- Jeff G
http://jeffgross.com/willys

Re: 56 Willys to 93 S-10
 

Alex Lloyd wrote:

>I am in the process of mounting a 56 Willy's pickup to a 93 S-10 4x4 and I
>may have bit off a little more than I can chew. To date, most of the work
>has been limited to getting the S-10 ready to accept the new body and I am
>looking at a couple of challenges that I can use some advice on.
>
It's ALWAYS more than we can chew. You just learn to chew harder &
faster. ;)

>
>First... the wheel base. The stats for the Willys show 118 inches and the
>S-10 is 123(122.9). When I measure the Willys from front fender center to
>rear fender center I get 115 inches. Where do I go from here. I am leaning
>towards 118 and adjusting the box position to achieve the right fit. Is
>this the correct approach?
>
Yes. The Willys truck front fenders are open in front and allow some
wiggle room, but can make it hard to guess where things are supposed to
line up. They also actually sit forward of the axle centers, I think
that's where your difference is. Work from the axle centers out (that's
what the stats are measured from). Read on for more important stuff.
S-10 chassis are great platforms for repowers. You might be surprised
how many S-10 hotrod coupes there are running around. I'll be talking
from the perspective of a Toyota chassis under a Willys body, but the
concepts are the same no matter who made what.

>Second is the cab position. I measured the Willys from the centre of the
>front axle to the forward cab maounts at approx 22 inches. In order to
>maintain this demension on the S-10, I would have to move the cab mounts
>back a couple of inches. Any recommendations or cautions on this approach?
>
>
The cab mounts between the two truck is almost irrelevant. They might
line up, but you'll likely have to do some serious fabricating to mount
the bed & chassis and have everyting line up right. Measure the
difference between the front axle and your seating position in the cab
to get your starting point for everything that you have to put your
hands on and what you need to do as far as your shifter, pedals and
steering column. You have to drive this thing, so make sure all the
controls are in good position or you'll hate it when you're done. You
can re-engineer almost anything except the seating position by more than
an inch or two or you'll be looking out of the wing window, unable to
rest your arm on the window or something goofy like that. This is the
single biggest reason you see so many projects for sale that aren't done
- not taking the operator into account when building it. Start bolting
bucket seats in a cab that has original seats mounted on platforms and
it gets real interesting. I've seen some real messes that started with
the best intentions, but would take 3 or 4 times as much money/time to
fix as it would have to do it right the first time.

Most modern trucks have the firewall WAY forward of where the Willys
firewall is. On my project (a 50 Willys Wagon on an 88 Toyota 4x4
chassis), the Wagon firewall is around 8" forward of where the Toyota
firewall is with the seating position being the point of reference.
Everything has to be measured from there. Old truck have you sitting
upright with your feet right under your knees like you did as a kid on
Grandma's couch, compared to modern vehicles where you're stretched out
on the seat and your shins are at a 45 degree or lower angle. That means
you (like I) might have to have a custom made shifter for the transfer
case and tranny that reaches back 9", and comes up almost a foot. The
Toyota steering column (if mounted back on the same chassis geometry)
puts the steering wheel right against the windshield on the Wagon, so
the column needs to be lengthened almost a foot. The front cab mounts on
the Willys are almost exactly where the front cab mounts are on the
Toyota chassis, but those mounts are about a foot behind the firewall on
the donor and are actually outside & in front of the Willys firewall.
This might be where you're getting confused as far as your mounts &
chassis are concerned. One good thing about that is it will make
servicing the truck very easy with all that room around the V6 EFI
engine. Keep in mind that you'll also have to make sure you don't end up
getting in the way of the radiator core support with your engine.
Shouldn't be much of a problem as old straight 6 Willys motors are
actually much longer than a modern V6.

DON'T put a V8 in a Willys truck - you'll regret it. Read about it at
http://www.willysamerica.com and read the stuff about repowering Willys
trucks. The shape of the engine compartment doesn't get rid of the heat
a V8 makes very well with that big a block in that little square box
under your hood. The only way to increase the amount of air you can get
OUT of the engine bay is to cut open your front inner wheel wells, and
on the Willys trucks they're crucial for structural support of the
entire front end. My Wagon came with a SBC in it, and it's a total mess.

Also, you might be shocked at how much of a body lift you'll end up with
putting an old body on a modern chassis unless you're doing some serious
fabricating. You might decide that the best way to go would be to 'stub'
the chassis together the way older race cars & some hotrods are built.
That's what I'm doing. I'm using the front 1/3 of the Toyota chassis
(for it's superior suspension & steering geometry that I won't have to
mess with) and the rear 1/3 of the Willys frame (with the Toyota axle)
to get almost all of the body mounts from the original without messing
with my Wagon's floor. This will give me almost stock height - only
about a 1.5" body lift which is fine with the Toyota chassis. Beefy
looks with good road manners. I will of course have to box in the flimsy
50 year old "C" shaped Willys frame portion (the Toyo frame is
completely boxed stock).

Keep us all posted on how you're doing. Repowering a Willys isn't for
the faint of heart, but it's worth it to have something that cool that
you can also rely on every day AND safely drive at 75 mph. That's why
I'm doing it. No generic 'bubble truck' for us! ;D

Good luck,
- Jeff G
http://jeffgross.com/willys