Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

If tehe engine is anything like the one in the Liberty, it may not be a good
thing.
The libby needed more suds for it'ws weight. I would have liked to have seen
this larger rig come with a small V8 or some REAL horsepower.

Kate

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

If tehe engine is anything like the one in the Liberty, it may not be a good
thing.
The libby needed more suds for it'ws weight. I would have liked to have seen
this larger rig come with a small V8 or some REAL horsepower.

Kate

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Tom Greening" <tgreening@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:453b69ed$0$6930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> YJ, TJ, and now whatever J this model is, all had/have their fair share of
> people jumping up to claim they had seen the "end of an era".

Agreed. Some people just don't like change. Just goes to show, the more
things change, the more they stay the same.

Funny
> how many buyers these monstrosities ended up finding.

Especially from serious off-roaders. With every Wrangler model, the majority
never see pavement, that's not a recent concept. The fact that one person
saw one potential buyer that probably won't use it off road, he's decided
it's unfit for public sale. Time will tell.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Tom Greening" <tgreening@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:453b69ed$0$6930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> YJ, TJ, and now whatever J this model is, all had/have their fair share of
> people jumping up to claim they had seen the "end of an era".

Agreed. Some people just don't like change. Just goes to show, the more
things change, the more they stay the same.

Funny
> how many buyers these monstrosities ended up finding.

Especially from serious off-roaders. With every Wrangler model, the majority
never see pavement, that's not a recent concept. The fact that one person
saw one potential buyer that probably won't use it off road, he's decided
it's unfit for public sale. Time will tell.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Tom Greening" <tgreening@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:453b69ed$0$6930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> YJ, TJ, and now whatever J this model is, all had/have their fair share of
> people jumping up to claim they had seen the "end of an era".

Agreed. Some people just don't like change. Just goes to show, the more
things change, the more they stay the same.

Funny
> how many buyers these monstrosities ended up finding.

Especially from serious off-roaders. With every Wrangler model, the majority
never see pavement, that's not a recent concept. The fact that one person
saw one potential buyer that probably won't use it off road, he's decided
it's unfit for public sale. Time will tell.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

The TJ's introduction of coils springs has been the single most important
development in the Wrangler line in terms of overall off-road performance
and on-road manners. Even if Bill doesn't think so. Lots of "purists"
deplored the idea, but in the last 10 years the TJ has been made the new
benchmark for off-road prowess. A lot of the things we, as users, have done
with their TJ's to make them more capable have found their way into the KJ:
longer control arms, a way to disconnect the front sway bar, etc.

Wifey's actually trading her 04 TJL for a KJL. It makes sense for us, we
have three kids and the seating for 5 means we can all go off-roading in the
same vehicle when the kids get bigger. I have her convinced to wait at least
until '08 because new models always have bugs. And there is a rumor that the
'08 may have a diesel mill available, which piques my interest.

If we'd all get off the "what you run" bandwagon and be more concerned with
"why you run," the the cumulative stress level of the group would drop
considerably.

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

The TJ's introduction of coils springs has been the single most important
development in the Wrangler line in terms of overall off-road performance
and on-road manners. Even if Bill doesn't think so. Lots of "purists"
deplored the idea, but in the last 10 years the TJ has been made the new
benchmark for off-road prowess. A lot of the things we, as users, have done
with their TJ's to make them more capable have found their way into the KJ:
longer control arms, a way to disconnect the front sway bar, etc.

Wifey's actually trading her 04 TJL for a KJL. It makes sense for us, we
have three kids and the seating for 5 means we can all go off-roading in the
same vehicle when the kids get bigger. I have her convinced to wait at least
until '08 because new models always have bugs. And there is a rumor that the
'08 may have a diesel mill available, which piques my interest.

If we'd all get off the "what you run" bandwagon and be more concerned with
"why you run," the the cumulative stress level of the group would drop
considerably.

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

The TJ's introduction of coils springs has been the single most important
development in the Wrangler line in terms of overall off-road performance
and on-road manners. Even if Bill doesn't think so. Lots of "purists"
deplored the idea, but in the last 10 years the TJ has been made the new
benchmark for off-road prowess. A lot of the things we, as users, have done
with their TJ's to make them more capable have found their way into the KJ:
longer control arms, a way to disconnect the front sway bar, etc.

Wifey's actually trading her 04 TJL for a KJL. It makes sense for us, we
have three kids and the seating for 5 means we can all go off-roading in the
same vehicle when the kids get bigger. I have her convinced to wait at least
until '08 because new models always have bugs. And there is a rumor that the
'08 may have a diesel mill available, which piques my interest.

If we'd all get off the "what you run" bandwagon and be more concerned with
"why you run," the the cumulative stress level of the group would drop
considerably.

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
launch hype. I guess that's a reflection of the shortened design
cycles in Detroit these days with CAD/CAM. Heaven knows Jeep has done
a gazillion concept vehicles based on the Wrangler so maybe they
finally just spun the spoon and picked one.

IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

Jeep missed a lot of additional sales in those intervening years. I
can't tell you how many people have told me "I would have bought a
Wrangler but it was so impractical with kids". Yep. I had four young
ones when I bought mine and it was the most impractical decision I've
ever made in my life. Somehow a Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and
....gag... the Commander don't have the romance and adventure of a
Wrangler. So they all bought a run of the mill SUV instead.

I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
inches would have been an issue.

The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
capability came with the original Unlimited. I test drove an automatic
when I bought my 98 TJ and without a 5th gear overdrive it was overly
noisy and no doubt a gas hog. As much as I've hated shifting the
manual in commuting traffic I've never once regretted not getting the
automatic.

As for the four doors, my kids wish I had them. Now they are much
bigger and getting in and out of the TJ is a pain for them not to
mention the absence of leg room. They'd rather we take another vehicle
most times. The four door I saw and pictures I've seen look like the
second set of doors is particularly narrow. But I suppose any door is
better than no door.

I've driven the H3 and even with the 3.5L was surprisingly impressed.
They've upped the displacement to 3.7L for '07 - still not enough for a
4500lb vehicle at high elevation IMO, but an improvement nonetheless.
The 33 inch tires and off-road package is nothing to complain about.

I no longer live in a location where off-roading is a primary
recreational activity but it does snow thirty or more inches a year. I
think of it as "the trouble comes to me now instead of me going looking
for trouble". Given $35,000 for a new off-road capable vehicle it
would be a difficult choice. My loyalty is to Jeep but the H3 is more
appealing. The only negative is GM reliability. My 98TJ has been
virtually trouble-free in 100,000 miles and I expect the next 100,000
will be about the same.

mc
98 TJ Sport

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
launch hype. I guess that's a reflection of the shortened design
cycles in Detroit these days with CAD/CAM. Heaven knows Jeep has done
a gazillion concept vehicles based on the Wrangler so maybe they
finally just spun the spoon and picked one.

IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

Jeep missed a lot of additional sales in those intervening years. I
can't tell you how many people have told me "I would have bought a
Wrangler but it was so impractical with kids". Yep. I had four young
ones when I bought mine and it was the most impractical decision I've
ever made in my life. Somehow a Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and
....gag... the Commander don't have the romance and adventure of a
Wrangler. So they all bought a run of the mill SUV instead.

I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
inches would have been an issue.

The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
capability came with the original Unlimited. I test drove an automatic
when I bought my 98 TJ and without a 5th gear overdrive it was overly
noisy and no doubt a gas hog. As much as I've hated shifting the
manual in commuting traffic I've never once regretted not getting the
automatic.

As for the four doors, my kids wish I had them. Now they are much
bigger and getting in and out of the TJ is a pain for them not to
mention the absence of leg room. They'd rather we take another vehicle
most times. The four door I saw and pictures I've seen look like the
second set of doors is particularly narrow. But I suppose any door is
better than no door.

I've driven the H3 and even with the 3.5L was surprisingly impressed.
They've upped the displacement to 3.7L for '07 - still not enough for a
4500lb vehicle at high elevation IMO, but an improvement nonetheless.
The 33 inch tires and off-road package is nothing to complain about.

I no longer live in a location where off-roading is a primary
recreational activity but it does snow thirty or more inches a year. I
think of it as "the trouble comes to me now instead of me going looking
for trouble". Given $35,000 for a new off-road capable vehicle it
would be a difficult choice. My loyalty is to Jeep but the H3 is more
appealing. The only negative is GM reliability. My 98TJ has been
virtually trouble-free in 100,000 miles and I expect the next 100,000
will be about the same.

mc
98 TJ Sport