Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Nospam wrote:

> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments in
> 1997 when the TJ was released.

What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.

Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER
prove to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Nospam wrote:

> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments in
> 1997 when the TJ was released.

What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.

Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER
prove to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Nospam wrote:

> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments in
> 1997 when the TJ was released.

What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.

Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER
prove to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Why not get a smaller and more powerful Grand Cherokee?

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Why not get a smaller and more powerful Grand Cherokee?

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Why not get a smaller and more powerful Grand Cherokee?

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:ouSdnUnTvK-3K6fYnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@softcom.net...
*whining and snivelling snipped*

>
> I then noticed that the customer was a mean-faced, middle-aged woman with
> big hair and an attitude.
>
> God help us all.

There have been a few in these parts, the four doors.
I think they are kind of cool.
I stopped and looked at one on the local lot and the guys were in it
checking it out, They tried to convince me I should trade mine in, I told
them it wasn't my type of rig, nice but not for me.

I would not go buy one as a replacement vehicle for my TJ but if I needed a
four door anything, oh hell yea, I'd run out and get one right now.

They have a lot of options for comfort, though I have not driven one they
appear to be comfortable on the inside and I like the look of them.
ESPECIALLY the black and the green.

No, they aren't the classic look that everyone has become accustomed to, but
they are a damn fine looking rig.

Sadly, all things must change or they become stagnant.

Oh AND
The two I have seen on the road so far, have been driven by 40 something
white males... so much for stereotypes.

Kate
(a mean faced middle aged woman with a TJ - HAAH!)

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:ouSdnUnTvK-3K6fYnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@softcom.net...
*whining and snivelling snipped*

>
> I then noticed that the customer was a mean-faced, middle-aged woman with
> big hair and an attitude.
>
> God help us all.

There have been a few in these parts, the four doors.
I think they are kind of cool.
I stopped and looked at one on the local lot and the guys were in it
checking it out, They tried to convince me I should trade mine in, I told
them it wasn't my type of rig, nice but not for me.

I would not go buy one as a replacement vehicle for my TJ but if I needed a
four door anything, oh hell yea, I'd run out and get one right now.

They have a lot of options for comfort, though I have not driven one they
appear to be comfortable on the inside and I like the look of them.
ESPECIALLY the black and the green.

No, they aren't the classic look that everyone has become accustomed to, but
they are a damn fine looking rig.

Sadly, all things must change or they become stagnant.

Oh AND
The two I have seen on the road so far, have been driven by 40 something
white males... so much for stereotypes.

Kate
(a mean faced middle aged woman with a TJ - HAAH!)

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:ouSdnUnTvK-3K6fYnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@softcom.net...
*whining and snivelling snipped*

>
> I then noticed that the customer was a mean-faced, middle-aged woman with
> big hair and an attitude.
>
> God help us all.

There have been a few in these parts, the four doors.
I think they are kind of cool.
I stopped and looked at one on the local lot and the guys were in it
checking it out, They tried to convince me I should trade mine in, I told
them it wasn't my type of rig, nice but not for me.

I would not go buy one as a replacement vehicle for my TJ but if I needed a
four door anything, oh hell yea, I'd run out and get one right now.

They have a lot of options for comfort, though I have not driven one they
appear to be comfortable on the inside and I like the look of them.
ESPECIALLY the black and the green.

No, they aren't the classic look that everyone has become accustomed to, but
they are a damn fine looking rig.

Sadly, all things must change or they become stagnant.

Oh AND
The two I have seen on the road so far, have been driven by 40 something
white males... so much for stereotypes.

Kate
(a mean faced middle aged woman with a TJ - HAAH!)

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

If tehe engine is anything like the one in the Liberty, it may not be a good
thing.
The libby needed more suds for it'ws weight. I would have liked to have seen
this larger rig come with a small V8 or some REAL horsepower.

Kate

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

If tehe engine is anything like the one in the Liberty, it may not be a good
thing.
The libby needed more suds for it'ws weight. I would have liked to have seen
this larger rig come with a small V8 or some REAL horsepower.

Kate

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

If tehe engine is anything like the one in the Liberty, it may not be a good
thing.
The libby needed more suds for it'ws weight. I would have liked to have seen
this larger rig come with a small V8 or some REAL horsepower.

Kate

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Tom Greening" <tgreening@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:453b69ed$0$6930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> YJ, TJ, and now whatever J this model is, all had/have their fair share of
> people jumping up to claim they had seen the "end of an era".

Agreed. Some people just don't like change. Just goes to show, the more
things change, the more they stay the same.

Funny
> how many buyers these monstrosities ended up finding.

Especially from serious off-roaders. With every Wrangler model, the majority
never see pavement, that's not a recent concept. The fact that one person
saw one potential buyer that probably won't use it off road, he's decided
it's unfit for public sale. Time will tell.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Tom Greening" <tgreening@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:453b69ed$0$6930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> YJ, TJ, and now whatever J this model is, all had/have their fair share of
> people jumping up to claim they had seen the "end of an era".

Agreed. Some people just don't like change. Just goes to show, the more
things change, the more they stay the same.

Funny
> how many buyers these monstrosities ended up finding.

Especially from serious off-roaders. With every Wrangler model, the majority
never see pavement, that's not a recent concept. The fact that one person
saw one potential buyer that probably won't use it off road, he's decided
it's unfit for public sale. Time will tell.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Tom Greening" <tgreening@yomama.com> wrote in message
news:453b69ed$0$6930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> YJ, TJ, and now whatever J this model is, all had/have their fair share of
> people jumping up to claim they had seen the "end of an era".

Agreed. Some people just don't like change. Just goes to show, the more
things change, the more they stay the same.

Funny
> how many buyers these monstrosities ended up finding.

Especially from serious off-roaders. With every Wrangler model, the majority
never see pavement, that's not a recent concept. The fact that one person
saw one potential buyer that probably won't use it off road, he's decided
it's unfit for public sale. Time will tell.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

The TJ's introduction of coils springs has been the single most important
development in the Wrangler line in terms of overall off-road performance
and on-road manners. Even if Bill doesn't think so. Lots of "purists"
deplored the idea, but in the last 10 years the TJ has been made the new
benchmark for off-road prowess. A lot of the things we, as users, have done
with their TJ's to make them more capable have found their way into the KJ:
longer control arms, a way to disconnect the front sway bar, etc.

Wifey's actually trading her 04 TJL for a KJL. It makes sense for us, we
have three kids and the seating for 5 means we can all go off-roading in the
same vehicle when the kids get bigger. I have her convinced to wait at least
until '08 because new models always have bugs. And there is a rumor that the
'08 may have a diesel mill available, which piques my interest.

If we'd all get off the "what you run" bandwagon and be more concerned with
"why you run," the the cumulative stress level of the group would drop
considerably.

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

The TJ's introduction of coils springs has been the single most important
development in the Wrangler line in terms of overall off-road performance
and on-road manners. Even if Bill doesn't think so. Lots of "purists"
deplored the idea, but in the last 10 years the TJ has been made the new
benchmark for off-road prowess. A lot of the things we, as users, have done
with their TJ's to make them more capable have found their way into the KJ:
longer control arms, a way to disconnect the front sway bar, etc.

Wifey's actually trading her 04 TJL for a KJL. It makes sense for us, we
have three kids and the seating for 5 means we can all go off-roading in the
same vehicle when the kids get bigger. I have her convinced to wait at least
until '08 because new models always have bugs. And there is a rumor that the
'08 may have a diesel mill available, which piques my interest.

If we'd all get off the "what you run" bandwagon and be more concerned with
"why you run," the the cumulative stress level of the group would drop
considerably.

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

The TJ's introduction of coils springs has been the single most important
development in the Wrangler line in terms of overall off-road performance
and on-road manners. Even if Bill doesn't think so. Lots of "purists"
deplored the idea, but in the last 10 years the TJ has been made the new
benchmark for off-road prowess. A lot of the things we, as users, have done
with their TJ's to make them more capable have found their way into the KJ:
longer control arms, a way to disconnect the front sway bar, etc.

Wifey's actually trading her 04 TJL for a KJL. It makes sense for us, we
have three kids and the seating for 5 means we can all go off-roading in the
same vehicle when the kids get bigger. I have her convinced to wait at least
until '08 because new models always have bugs. And there is a rumor that the
'08 may have a diesel mill available, which piques my interest.

If we'd all get off the "what you run" bandwagon and be more concerned with
"why you run," the the cumulative stress level of the group would drop
considerably.

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:qKudnQdbEddMRqbYnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@softcom.net. ..
> Nospam wrote:
>
>> While I agree with everyone's comments, I heard all of the same comments
>> in 1997 when the TJ was released.
>
> What changed in 97? I know about square headlights to round, and coil
> springs instead of leafs, both changes I could take or leave.
>
> Now however, we are faced with a Hummer clone and minivan engine. I may
> warm to the PT-like interior, but never the Unlimited's body design, and
> the jury's still out on the engine. I seriously doubt it will EVER prove
> to be as durable at the 4.0's.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
launch hype. I guess that's a reflection of the shortened design
cycles in Detroit these days with CAD/CAM. Heaven knows Jeep has done
a gazillion concept vehicles based on the Wrangler so maybe they
finally just spun the spoon and picked one.

IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

Jeep missed a lot of additional sales in those intervening years. I
can't tell you how many people have told me "I would have bought a
Wrangler but it was so impractical with kids". Yep. I had four young
ones when I bought mine and it was the most impractical decision I've
ever made in my life. Somehow a Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and
....gag... the Commander don't have the romance and adventure of a
Wrangler. So they all bought a run of the mill SUV instead.

I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
inches would have been an issue.

The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
capability came with the original Unlimited. I test drove an automatic
when I bought my 98 TJ and without a 5th gear overdrive it was overly
noisy and no doubt a gas hog. As much as I've hated shifting the
manual in commuting traffic I've never once regretted not getting the
automatic.

As for the four doors, my kids wish I had them. Now they are much
bigger and getting in and out of the TJ is a pain for them not to
mention the absence of leg room. They'd rather we take another vehicle
most times. The four door I saw and pictures I've seen look like the
second set of doors is particularly narrow. But I suppose any door is
better than no door.

I've driven the H3 and even with the 3.5L was surprisingly impressed.
They've upped the displacement to 3.7L for '07 - still not enough for a
4500lb vehicle at high elevation IMO, but an improvement nonetheless.
The 33 inch tires and off-road package is nothing to complain about.

I no longer live in a location where off-roading is a primary
recreational activity but it does snow thirty or more inches a year. I
think of it as "the trouble comes to me now instead of me going looking
for trouble". Given $35,000 for a new off-road capable vehicle it
would be a difficult choice. My loyalty is to Jeep but the H3 is more
appealing. The only negative is GM reliability. My 98TJ has been
virtually trouble-free in 100,000 miles and I expect the next 100,000
will be about the same.

mc
98 TJ Sport

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
launch hype. I guess that's a reflection of the shortened design
cycles in Detroit these days with CAD/CAM. Heaven knows Jeep has done
a gazillion concept vehicles based on the Wrangler so maybe they
finally just spun the spoon and picked one.

IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

Jeep missed a lot of additional sales in those intervening years. I
can't tell you how many people have told me "I would have bought a
Wrangler but it was so impractical with kids". Yep. I had four young
ones when I bought mine and it was the most impractical decision I've
ever made in my life. Somehow a Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and
....gag... the Commander don't have the romance and adventure of a
Wrangler. So they all bought a run of the mill SUV instead.

I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
inches would have been an issue.

The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
capability came with the original Unlimited. I test drove an automatic
when I bought my 98 TJ and without a 5th gear overdrive it was overly
noisy and no doubt a gas hog. As much as I've hated shifting the
manual in commuting traffic I've never once regretted not getting the
automatic.

As for the four doors, my kids wish I had them. Now they are much
bigger and getting in and out of the TJ is a pain for them not to
mention the absence of leg room. They'd rather we take another vehicle
most times. The four door I saw and pictures I've seen look like the
second set of doors is particularly narrow. But I suppose any door is
better than no door.

I've driven the H3 and even with the 3.5L was surprisingly impressed.
They've upped the displacement to 3.7L for '07 - still not enough for a
4500lb vehicle at high elevation IMO, but an improvement nonetheless.
The 33 inch tires and off-road package is nothing to complain about.

I no longer live in a location where off-roading is a primary
recreational activity but it does snow thirty or more inches a year. I
think of it as "the trouble comes to me now instead of me going looking
for trouble". Given $35,000 for a new off-road capable vehicle it
would be a difficult choice. My loyalty is to Jeep but the H3 is more
appealing. The only negative is GM reliability. My 98TJ has been
virtually trouble-free in 100,000 miles and I expect the next 100,000
will be about the same.

mc
98 TJ Sport

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
launch hype. I guess that's a reflection of the shortened design
cycles in Detroit these days with CAD/CAM. Heaven knows Jeep has done
a gazillion concept vehicles based on the Wrangler so maybe they
finally just spun the spoon and picked one.

IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

Jeep missed a lot of additional sales in those intervening years. I
can't tell you how many people have told me "I would have bought a
Wrangler but it was so impractical with kids". Yep. I had four young
ones when I bought mine and it was the most impractical decision I've
ever made in my life. Somehow a Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and
....gag... the Commander don't have the romance and adventure of a
Wrangler. So they all bought a run of the mill SUV instead.

I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
inches would have been an issue.

The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
capability came with the original Unlimited. I test drove an automatic
when I bought my 98 TJ and without a 5th gear overdrive it was overly
noisy and no doubt a gas hog. As much as I've hated shifting the
manual in commuting traffic I've never once regretted not getting the
automatic.

As for the four doors, my kids wish I had them. Now they are much
bigger and getting in and out of the TJ is a pain for them not to
mention the absence of leg room. They'd rather we take another vehicle
most times. The four door I saw and pictures I've seen look like the
second set of doors is particularly narrow. But I suppose any door is
better than no door.

I've driven the H3 and even with the 3.5L was surprisingly impressed.
They've upped the displacement to 3.7L for '07 - still not enough for a
4500lb vehicle at high elevation IMO, but an improvement nonetheless.
The 33 inch tires and off-road package is nothing to complain about.

I no longer live in a location where off-roading is a primary
recreational activity but it does snow thirty or more inches a year. I
think of it as "the trouble comes to me now instead of me going looking
for trouble". Given $35,000 for a new off-road capable vehicle it
would be a difficult choice. My loyalty is to Jeep but the H3 is more
appealing. The only negative is GM reliability. My 98TJ has been
virtually trouble-free in 100,000 miles and I expect the next 100,000
will be about the same.

mc
98 TJ Sport

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

<michaelcjeep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1161562120.597155.63910@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
> was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
> truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

I will say the four door with the full doors and no top is butt ugly....

>
> What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
> four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
> would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
> upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
> launch hype.

??? You didn't see the fire department hosing down a pile of mud revealing
the new Wrangler underneath? (Chicago PD I think.) In Detroit they had it
drive through the front window at Cobo Hall. (I think that was the KJ, but
not sure.) Point is there's been plenty of hype.

> IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
> four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
> immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
> and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
> poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

The huge sales of upscale SUV's happened since the Dakar concept, which
after all was almost 10 years ago.


>
> I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
> wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
> one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
> inches would have been an issue.
>
> The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
> capability came with the original Unlimited.

4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
same.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

<michaelcjeep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1161562120.597155.63910@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
> was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
> truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

I will say the four door with the full doors and no top is butt ugly....

>
> What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
> four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
> would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
> upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
> launch hype.

??? You didn't see the fire department hosing down a pile of mud revealing
the new Wrangler underneath? (Chicago PD I think.) In Detroit they had it
drive through the front window at Cobo Hall. (I think that was the KJ, but
not sure.) Point is there's been plenty of hype.

> IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
> four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
> immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
> and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
> poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

The huge sales of upscale SUV's happened since the Dakar concept, which
after all was almost 10 years ago.


>
> I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
> wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
> one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
> inches would have been an issue.
>
> The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
> capability came with the original Unlimited.

4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
same.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

<michaelcjeep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1161562120.597155.63910@m7g2000cwm.googlegrou ps.com...
>I saw one of the four door Wrangler models a couple weeks ago. The top
> was off and at first I thought it was a shrunk version of an H2 sport
> truck. It was a gun metal blue color.

I will say the four door with the full doors and no top is butt ugly....

>
> What surprises me is how quickly and quietly Jeep has introduced the
> four door Wrangler on the showroom floor. You would have thought it
> would have been at the '06 auto show with a lot of hype about its
> upcoming debut. Instead DC kind of throws it out there without much
> launch hype.

??? You didn't see the fire department hosing down a pile of mud revealing
the new Wrangler underneath? (Chicago PD I think.) In Detroit they had it
drive through the front window at Cobo Hall. (I think that was the KJ, but
not sure.) Point is there's been plenty of hype.

> IMO I think it's a good move albeit five or six years too late. The
> four door Dakar concept Wrangler should have gone to production
> immediately after it appeared at auto shows. The fact that it didn't
> and now there is a four door Wrangler five plus years later shows how
> poorly Jeep and Daimler Chrysler understand their market demographic.

The huge sales of upscale SUV's happened since the Dakar concept, which
after all was almost 10 years ago.


>
> I like the added width of the '07. There have been many times I've
> wished for a few more inches to extend my left arm. There's only been
> one or two times I've been in an off-road situation where six more
> inches would have been an issue.
>
> The added length makes an automatic transmission feasible although this
> capability came with the original Unlimited.

4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
same.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

What I think is wild is that the 4-door Wrangler is bigger in every way
than my XJ. It's noticeable longer, wider, taller. Personally, I
wouldn't want anything bigger than the XJ, except a truck for reasons of
hauling stuff. The XJ is a decent size for a family hauler.

B

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

What I think is wild is that the 4-door Wrangler is bigger in every way
than my XJ. It's noticeable longer, wider, taller. Personally, I
wouldn't want anything bigger than the XJ, except a truck for reasons of
hauling stuff. The XJ is a decent size for a family hauler.

B

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

What I think is wild is that the 4-door Wrangler is bigger in every way
than my XJ. It's noticeable longer, wider, taller. Personally, I
wouldn't want anything bigger than the XJ, except a truck for reasons of
hauling stuff. The XJ is a decent size for a family hauler.

B

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

It is bigger than my Grand Cherokee. Something over 13 inches longer, 500
pounds heavier and has a worse base engine.

It does offer a little bit more ground clearance than my Grand in case you
need that extra height... Hmmmmm was it 1/10 inch or 1/4 inch?........


"Brian" <bsheller@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-97E4CE.21104722102006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> What I think is wild is that the 4-door Wrangler is bigger in every way
> than my XJ. It's noticeable longer, wider, taller. Personally, I
> wouldn't want anything bigger than the XJ, except a truck for reasons of
> hauling stuff. The XJ is a decent size for a family hauler.
>
> B

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

It is bigger than my Grand Cherokee. Something over 13 inches longer, 500
pounds heavier and has a worse base engine.

It does offer a little bit more ground clearance than my Grand in case you
need that extra height... Hmmmmm was it 1/10 inch or 1/4 inch?........


"Brian" <bsheller@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-97E4CE.21104722102006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> What I think is wild is that the 4-door Wrangler is bigger in every way
> than my XJ. It's noticeable longer, wider, taller. Personally, I
> wouldn't want anything bigger than the XJ, except a truck for reasons of
> hauling stuff. The XJ is a decent size for a family hauler.
>
> B

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

It is bigger than my Grand Cherokee. Something over 13 inches longer, 500
pounds heavier and has a worse base engine.

It does offer a little bit more ground clearance than my Grand in case you
need that extra height... Hmmmmm was it 1/10 inch or 1/4 inch?........


"Brian" <bsheller@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bsheller-97E4CE.21104722102006@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> What I think is wild is that the 4-door Wrangler is bigger in every way
> than my XJ. It's noticeable longer, wider, taller. Personally, I
> wouldn't want anything bigger than the XJ, except a truck for reasons of
> hauling stuff. The XJ is a decent size for a family hauler.
>
> B

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

In 2002 there was no 4-speed auto in the Wrangler. I think the 4-speed auto
became available in the Wrangler '03 or '04. I had an '02, and it was
definitely not available then.

Tom


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:ZLqdnQb3Z4nDkKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
snip
> 4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
> same.
>
>
>

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

In 2002 there was no 4-speed auto in the Wrangler. I think the 4-speed auto
became available in the Wrangler '03 or '04. I had an '02, and it was
definitely not available then.

Tom


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:ZLqdnQb3Z4nDkKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
snip
> 4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
> same.
>
>
>

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

In 2002 there was no 4-speed auto in the Wrangler. I think the 4-speed auto
became available in the Wrangler '03 or '04. I had an '02, and it was
definitely not available then.

Tom


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:ZLqdnQb3Z4nDkKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
snip
> 4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
> same.
>
>
>

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I stand corrected, it must have been '03, I remember it was the first year
the Rubicon came out.

I am half right, the 03's came out in late '02 :-)

"mabar" <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:453beadb$1_2@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In 2002 there was no 4-speed auto in the Wrangler. I think the 4-speed
> auto
> became available in the Wrangler '03 or '04. I had an '02, and it was
> definitely not available then.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:ZLqdnQb3Z4nDkKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
> snip
>> 4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
>> same.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I stand corrected, it must have been '03, I remember it was the first year
the Rubicon came out.

I am half right, the 03's came out in late '02 :-)

"mabar" <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:453beadb$1_2@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In 2002 there was no 4-speed auto in the Wrangler. I think the 4-speed
> auto
> became available in the Wrangler '03 or '04. I had an '02, and it was
> definitely not available then.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:ZLqdnQb3Z4nDkKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
> snip
>> 4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
>> same.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

I stand corrected, it must have been '03, I remember it was the first year
the Rubicon came out.

I am half right, the 03's came out in late '02 :-)

"mabar" <xyzz4569@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:453beadb$1_2@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> In 2002 there was no 4-speed auto in the Wrangler. I think the 4-speed
> auto
> became available in the Wrangler '03 or '04. I had an '02, and it was
> definitely not available then.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:ZLqdnQb3Z4nDkKHYnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
> snip
>> 4-speed autos were intro'd in Wranglers in 2002. Unlimited autos are the
>> same.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Kate wrote:

> Sadly, all things must change or they become stagnant.

Sadly, some of old farts like stagnant. You know, stuff that just works
forever. I still have a Western Electric dial phone on my kitchen wall,
a calculator I bought in 1975, my old Teac tube stereo circa 1977, and
my beloved TJ, that hopefully will be still be running when I'm ready to
be buried in it. Some things *shouldn't* change just for the sake of
change itself.

Change is good when it replaces something worse. There isn't anything
wrong with the TJ model. The bugs are finally worked out, they're
attractive and ultra-durable, and even have a comfortable ride. But, as
sure as something is perfected and works perfectly, captains of industry
figure it's time to scrap it for the sake of continued profitibility.
That's fine for businesses, but the consumer winds up short.

American business models seem to revolve around short product lifespans
these days, in order to keep sharholders happy. Consumers like me are
tired of having to replace every damn thing we own every 5 years because
something broke and can't be replaced/repaired, it just plain wore out
because of cheap materials used or a crappy design, or an adjoining
company who's service is required to make it work has decided to
'upgrade' and is forcing obscelesence upon perfectly good products for
the sake of additional profits via sales of new doo-dads, increased
prices for service, etc. The cellular phone industry is the king of
this nonsense!

And of course, the automotive industry nickel-and-dimes you to death
with 'The Monthlys' to snatch whatever's left of your wallet. Onstar
for your new GM product for those who are too challenged to dial 911 or
simply ask a passerby for help, satellite radio because AM or FM just
isn't cool enough, and the ever-popular, pure-profit extended warranties.

Bleh. I'll take stagnation anyday. Products get sidelined purely for
the sake of profits, not for the sake of introducing better products.

> Kate
> (a mean faced middle aged woman with a TJ - HAAH!)

I'm glad you said this first! I didn't have a problem with her intended
use (I have no clue what she's going to do with it, and that's never a
concern -if she wants to be a mean-ass Mall Mommie, more power to her!),
but with the fact that TJ's (and worse, 4.0 sixes) will now be
considered obselete. How sad that such a wonderful product has been
kicked to the curb to keep sales up.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Kate wrote:

> Sadly, all things must change or they become stagnant.

Sadly, some of old farts like stagnant. You know, stuff that just works
forever. I still have a Western Electric dial phone on my kitchen wall,
a calculator I bought in 1975, my old Teac tube stereo circa 1977, and
my beloved TJ, that hopefully will be still be running when I'm ready to
be buried in it. Some things *shouldn't* change just for the sake of
change itself.

Change is good when it replaces something worse. There isn't anything
wrong with the TJ model. The bugs are finally worked out, they're
attractive and ultra-durable, and even have a comfortable ride. But, as
sure as something is perfected and works perfectly, captains of industry
figure it's time to scrap it for the sake of continued profitibility.
That's fine for businesses, but the consumer winds up short.

American business models seem to revolve around short product lifespans
these days, in order to keep sharholders happy. Consumers like me are
tired of having to replace every damn thing we own every 5 years because
something broke and can't be replaced/repaired, it just plain wore out
because of cheap materials used or a crappy design, or an adjoining
company who's service is required to make it work has decided to
'upgrade' and is forcing obscelesence upon perfectly good products for
the sake of additional profits via sales of new doo-dads, increased
prices for service, etc. The cellular phone industry is the king of
this nonsense!

And of course, the automotive industry nickel-and-dimes you to death
with 'The Monthlys' to snatch whatever's left of your wallet. Onstar
for your new GM product for those who are too challenged to dial 911 or
simply ask a passerby for help, satellite radio because AM or FM just
isn't cool enough, and the ever-popular, pure-profit extended warranties.

Bleh. I'll take stagnation anyday. Products get sidelined purely for
the sake of profits, not for the sake of introducing better products.

> Kate
> (a mean faced middle aged woman with a TJ - HAAH!)

I'm glad you said this first! I didn't have a problem with her intended
use (I have no clue what she's going to do with it, and that's never a
concern -if she wants to be a mean-ass Mall Mommie, more power to her!),
but with the fact that TJ's (and worse, 4.0 sixes) will now be
considered obselete. How sad that such a wonderful product has been
kicked to the curb to keep sales up.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

Kate wrote:

> Sadly, all things must change or they become stagnant.

Sadly, some of old farts like stagnant. You know, stuff that just works
forever. I still have a Western Electric dial phone on my kitchen wall,
a calculator I bought in 1975, my old Teac tube stereo circa 1977, and
my beloved TJ, that hopefully will be still be running when I'm ready to
be buried in it. Some things *shouldn't* change just for the sake of
change itself.

Change is good when it replaces something worse. There isn't anything
wrong with the TJ model. The bugs are finally worked out, they're
attractive and ultra-durable, and even have a comfortable ride. But, as
sure as something is perfected and works perfectly, captains of industry
figure it's time to scrap it for the sake of continued profitibility.
That's fine for businesses, but the consumer winds up short.

American business models seem to revolve around short product lifespans
these days, in order to keep sharholders happy. Consumers like me are
tired of having to replace every damn thing we own every 5 years because
something broke and can't be replaced/repaired, it just plain wore out
because of cheap materials used or a crappy design, or an adjoining
company who's service is required to make it work has decided to
'upgrade' and is forcing obscelesence upon perfectly good products for
the sake of additional profits via sales of new doo-dads, increased
prices for service, etc. The cellular phone industry is the king of
this nonsense!

And of course, the automotive industry nickel-and-dimes you to death
with 'The Monthlys' to snatch whatever's left of your wallet. Onstar
for your new GM product for those who are too challenged to dial 911 or
simply ask a passerby for help, satellite radio because AM or FM just
isn't cool enough, and the ever-popular, pure-profit extended warranties.

Bleh. I'll take stagnation anyday. Products get sidelined purely for
the sake of profits, not for the sake of introducing better products.

> Kate
> (a mean faced middle aged woman with a TJ - HAAH!)

I'm glad you said this first! I didn't have a problem with her intended
use (I have no clue what she's going to do with it, and that's never a
concern -if she wants to be a mean-ass Mall Mommie, more power to her!),
but with the fact that TJ's (and worse, 4.0 sixes) will now be
considered obselete. How sad that such a wonderful product has been
kicked to the curb to keep sales up.

Re: 2007 Unlimited Spotted
 

"Outatime" <WhoKnows@here.com> wrote in message
news:KPWdnXlih8vApqHYnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@softcom.net. ..

> Change is good when it replaces something worse. There isn't anything
> wrong with the TJ model.

It's 10 years old, pretty much the useful lifespan of any modern automotive
product. And remember what was said in the past:

1987: "There isn't anything wrong with the CJ! Damn corporate captains of
industry, always changing things that don't need changing!"
1997: "There isn't anything wrong with the YJ! Damn corporate captains of
industry, always changing things that don't need changing!"


The bugs are finally worked out, they're
> attractive and ultra-durable, and even have a comfortable ride. But, as
> sure as something is perfected and works perfectly, captains of industry
> figure it's time to scrap it for the sake of continued profitibility.
> That's fine for businesses, but the consumer winds up short.
>
> American business models seem to revolve around short product lifespans
> these days, in order to keep sharholders happy.

I would agree too many companies don't have an adequate long-term strategy.
But first and foremost, a manufacturer exists to make money, not a product.
If you can't compete, you don't make money. If you don't make money, you
can't make anything.

Consumers like me are
> tired of having to replace every damn thing we own every 5 years

Lots of consumers like having the latest and most up-to-date model of
everything.
>

> Bleh. I'll take stagnation anyday. Products get sidelined purely for the
> sake of profits, not for the sake of introducing better products.


> How sad that such a wonderful product has been kicked to the curb to keep
> sales up.
>
Like I said, If a product maker can't compete, they won't be making
products. You've never run your own business, I gather.