Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

Mike Romain proclaimed:

> Lon wrote:
>
>>
>> Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock,
>
>
> Do you think he would get a full volt drop at the battery on 'start'
> without the starter pulling power? He does say he hears a click, but
> that might not be the starter solenoid...

Yeah, that volt drop is odd. However, he also said the lights don't
dim, which is hard to reconcile with the full volt of drop.

If the click is loud, suspect would be simple bad battery that won't
pass a load test, cables, or possibly the ground on the '02 carries on
the grand old traditions.

If the click is quieter, could be the start relay... in which case the
interlocks are off the suspect list.
>
> Good point about the interlocks though, trying to start it in neutral
> would be worth a try.

The switch could be bad.

I'd be more likely to use a Sears screwdriver at the solenoid.

Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

Mike Romain proclaimed:

> Lon wrote:
>
>>
>> Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock,
>
>
> Do you think he would get a full volt drop at the battery on 'start'
> without the starter pulling power? He does say he hears a click, but
> that might not be the starter solenoid...

Yeah, that volt drop is odd. However, he also said the lights don't
dim, which is hard to reconcile with the full volt of drop.

If the click is loud, suspect would be simple bad battery that won't
pass a load test, cables, or possibly the ground on the '02 carries on
the grand old traditions.

If the click is quieter, could be the start relay... in which case the
interlocks are off the suspect list.
>
> Good point about the interlocks though, trying to start it in neutral
> would be worth a try.

The switch could be bad.

I'd be more likely to use a Sears screwdriver at the solenoid.

Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

Mike Romain proclaimed:

> Lon wrote:
>
>>
>> Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock,
>
>
> Do you think he would get a full volt drop at the battery on 'start'
> without the starter pulling power? He does say he hears a click, but
> that might not be the starter solenoid...

Yeah, that volt drop is odd. However, he also said the lights don't
dim, which is hard to reconcile with the full volt of drop.

If the click is loud, suspect would be simple bad battery that won't
pass a load test, cables, or possibly the ground on the '02 carries on
the grand old traditions.

If the click is quieter, could be the start relay... in which case the
interlocks are off the suspect list.
>
> Good point about the interlocks though, trying to start it in neutral
> would be worth a try.

The switch could be bad.

I'd be more likely to use a Sears screwdriver at the solenoid.

Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

You might want to price a factory service manual.

Charge it up good, then give it a load test.
Measure across the posts.
Turn on the lights for 10 minutes.
Measure again.

Pretty good at finding a surface charge where the voltage looks good
until you load it.

If this is the original battery, replace it. Sears sells nice SUV Die
Hards and Optimas...both of which work pretty good.

If there is even the tiniest bit of crud at your cable connects, buy a
cheap terminal cleaner brush.


D proclaimed:

> You guys are all great! I printed this out for future use Lon. Very good
> info.
> Problem solved, for now anyway. I put a deep charge on the battery and got
> a start. I redid every connection on the solenoid and prepped the cables for
> a new battery.
> Charging circuit seems to check out okay. With a 'guarded' thank you, I'll
> see how it goes. I might stop into Autozone just to confirm my readings that
> the charging system is working up to par.
> Thank you all again for your prompt and very informative help.
> D
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:GuydnaR4G9-osD_bnZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>There should be a +12 feed right from the battery to the solenoid
>>whether or not the key is on.
>>
>>This is the huge wire that carries way too much current to be switched
>>by the key, the starter relay etc. The solenoid is what switches this
>>high current 12 volts to the starter when you turn the key to start...it
>>is just a very large high current relay.
>>
>>Your ignition switch has two circuits that control the starter.
>>
>>The ground side of the ignition switch signal is routed through the
>>park/neutral switch on an automatic transmission. If that circuit is
>>open your starter relay will not close.
>>
>>The hot side of the ignition switch signal heads for the small starter
>>relay. The starter relay will send +12 to the starter solenoid when you
>>turn the switch to start...if none of the interlocks prevent this.
>>
>>Your solenoid always has +12 on it while the battery is connected. The
>>small +12 wire from the starter relay is used to switch the solenoid so
>>the high current 12 v goes to the starter. If you have a big sears or
>>similar screwdriver, you can turn on your solenoid by jumpering the big
>>red wire to the output to the starter. If that turns over the engine,
>>then one of the interlocks, the ignition switch, the start relay etc. is
>>the culprit. If you cannot turn the engine over with a direct jump
>>across the solenoid, you have a bad cable, which includes the ground
>>side of your battery.
>>
>>Common mistake in diagnosing is to check voltages from the connector at
>>the battery... need to use the posts themselves.
>>
>>Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock, which can be a real bear
>>to isolate unless you have friends and a long diagnostic jumper wire or
>>take a spare starter relay apart and jump across it.
>>
>>However, check the big cabling first.
>>
>>With someone helping by turning the starter on, measure the voltages to
>>ground and to the starter solenoid large wire.
>>
>> From the ground post on the battery to the engine and then again to the
>>body, you should see well under 0.2 volts with the switch to start.
>>
>>Then check from the positive post to the solenoid, again with switch to
>>start, you should see well under 0.2 volts.
>>
>>Any point where you see more than 0.1 volt is a big red flag of a bad
>>cable or connection.
>>
>>
>>D proclaimed:
>>
>>
>>>All,
>>>I did a voltage check across the two connections on the strarter
>
> solenoid
>
>>>and have 12.5vdc with the key off. By looking in the manual, that should
>
> not
>
>>>have voltage until the key is turned to the start position. Is that
>
> right? I
>
>>>thought the negative side got it's ground through the engine starter
>
> relay
>
>>>in the power distribution center.
>>>I failed to clarify in my earlier post that I get no action from the
>
> starter
>
>>>motor.
>>>Thanks
>>>D
>>>
>>>"D" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46a14eb6$0$30603$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>I have a 2002 Grand Cherokee, 4.7 V-8. Went to start it and only a small
>>>>click from under the hood. Jumping the battery was no joy.
>>>>First thing to check before I look for my manual?
>>>>Thanks
>>>>D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

You might want to price a factory service manual.

Charge it up good, then give it a load test.
Measure across the posts.
Turn on the lights for 10 minutes.
Measure again.

Pretty good at finding a surface charge where the voltage looks good
until you load it.

If this is the original battery, replace it. Sears sells nice SUV Die
Hards and Optimas...both of which work pretty good.

If there is even the tiniest bit of crud at your cable connects, buy a
cheap terminal cleaner brush.


D proclaimed:

> You guys are all great! I printed this out for future use Lon. Very good
> info.
> Problem solved, for now anyway. I put a deep charge on the battery and got
> a start. I redid every connection on the solenoid and prepped the cables for
> a new battery.
> Charging circuit seems to check out okay. With a 'guarded' thank you, I'll
> see how it goes. I might stop into Autozone just to confirm my readings that
> the charging system is working up to par.
> Thank you all again for your prompt and very informative help.
> D
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:GuydnaR4G9-osD_bnZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>There should be a +12 feed right from the battery to the solenoid
>>whether or not the key is on.
>>
>>This is the huge wire that carries way too much current to be switched
>>by the key, the starter relay etc. The solenoid is what switches this
>>high current 12 volts to the starter when you turn the key to start...it
>>is just a very large high current relay.
>>
>>Your ignition switch has two circuits that control the starter.
>>
>>The ground side of the ignition switch signal is routed through the
>>park/neutral switch on an automatic transmission. If that circuit is
>>open your starter relay will not close.
>>
>>The hot side of the ignition switch signal heads for the small starter
>>relay. The starter relay will send +12 to the starter solenoid when you
>>turn the switch to start...if none of the interlocks prevent this.
>>
>>Your solenoid always has +12 on it while the battery is connected. The
>>small +12 wire from the starter relay is used to switch the solenoid so
>>the high current 12 v goes to the starter. If you have a big sears or
>>similar screwdriver, you can turn on your solenoid by jumpering the big
>>red wire to the output to the starter. If that turns over the engine,
>>then one of the interlocks, the ignition switch, the start relay etc. is
>>the culprit. If you cannot turn the engine over with a direct jump
>>across the solenoid, you have a bad cable, which includes the ground
>>side of your battery.
>>
>>Common mistake in diagnosing is to check voltages from the connector at
>>the battery... need to use the posts themselves.
>>
>>Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock, which can be a real bear
>>to isolate unless you have friends and a long diagnostic jumper wire or
>>take a spare starter relay apart and jump across it.
>>
>>However, check the big cabling first.
>>
>>With someone helping by turning the starter on, measure the voltages to
>>ground and to the starter solenoid large wire.
>>
>> From the ground post on the battery to the engine and then again to the
>>body, you should see well under 0.2 volts with the switch to start.
>>
>>Then check from the positive post to the solenoid, again with switch to
>>start, you should see well under 0.2 volts.
>>
>>Any point where you see more than 0.1 volt is a big red flag of a bad
>>cable or connection.
>>
>>
>>D proclaimed:
>>
>>
>>>All,
>>>I did a voltage check across the two connections on the strarter
>
> solenoid
>
>>>and have 12.5vdc with the key off. By looking in the manual, that should
>
> not
>
>>>have voltage until the key is turned to the start position. Is that
>
> right? I
>
>>>thought the negative side got it's ground through the engine starter
>
> relay
>
>>>in the power distribution center.
>>>I failed to clarify in my earlier post that I get no action from the
>
> starter
>
>>>motor.
>>>Thanks
>>>D
>>>
>>>"D" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46a14eb6$0$30603$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>I have a 2002 Grand Cherokee, 4.7 V-8. Went to start it and only a small
>>>>click from under the hood. Jumping the battery was no joy.
>>>>First thing to check before I look for my manual?
>>>>Thanks
>>>>D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

You might want to price a factory service manual.

Charge it up good, then give it a load test.
Measure across the posts.
Turn on the lights for 10 minutes.
Measure again.

Pretty good at finding a surface charge where the voltage looks good
until you load it.

If this is the original battery, replace it. Sears sells nice SUV Die
Hards and Optimas...both of which work pretty good.

If there is even the tiniest bit of crud at your cable connects, buy a
cheap terminal cleaner brush.


D proclaimed:

> You guys are all great! I printed this out for future use Lon. Very good
> info.
> Problem solved, for now anyway. I put a deep charge on the battery and got
> a start. I redid every connection on the solenoid and prepped the cables for
> a new battery.
> Charging circuit seems to check out okay. With a 'guarded' thank you, I'll
> see how it goes. I might stop into Autozone just to confirm my readings that
> the charging system is working up to par.
> Thank you all again for your prompt and very informative help.
> D
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:GuydnaR4G9-osD_bnZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>There should be a +12 feed right from the battery to the solenoid
>>whether or not the key is on.
>>
>>This is the huge wire that carries way too much current to be switched
>>by the key, the starter relay etc. The solenoid is what switches this
>>high current 12 volts to the starter when you turn the key to start...it
>>is just a very large high current relay.
>>
>>Your ignition switch has two circuits that control the starter.
>>
>>The ground side of the ignition switch signal is routed through the
>>park/neutral switch on an automatic transmission. If that circuit is
>>open your starter relay will not close.
>>
>>The hot side of the ignition switch signal heads for the small starter
>>relay. The starter relay will send +12 to the starter solenoid when you
>>turn the switch to start...if none of the interlocks prevent this.
>>
>>Your solenoid always has +12 on it while the battery is connected. The
>>small +12 wire from the starter relay is used to switch the solenoid so
>>the high current 12 v goes to the starter. If you have a big sears or
>>similar screwdriver, you can turn on your solenoid by jumpering the big
>>red wire to the output to the starter. If that turns over the engine,
>>then one of the interlocks, the ignition switch, the start relay etc. is
>>the culprit. If you cannot turn the engine over with a direct jump
>>across the solenoid, you have a bad cable, which includes the ground
>>side of your battery.
>>
>>Common mistake in diagnosing is to check voltages from the connector at
>>the battery... need to use the posts themselves.
>>
>>Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock, which can be a real bear
>>to isolate unless you have friends and a long diagnostic jumper wire or
>>take a spare starter relay apart and jump across it.
>>
>>However, check the big cabling first.
>>
>>With someone helping by turning the starter on, measure the voltages to
>>ground and to the starter solenoid large wire.
>>
>> From the ground post on the battery to the engine and then again to the
>>body, you should see well under 0.2 volts with the switch to start.
>>
>>Then check from the positive post to the solenoid, again with switch to
>>start, you should see well under 0.2 volts.
>>
>>Any point where you see more than 0.1 volt is a big red flag of a bad
>>cable or connection.
>>
>>
>>D proclaimed:
>>
>>
>>>All,
>>>I did a voltage check across the two connections on the strarter
>
> solenoid
>
>>>and have 12.5vdc with the key off. By looking in the manual, that should
>
> not
>
>>>have voltage until the key is turned to the start position. Is that
>
> right? I
>
>>>thought the negative side got it's ground through the engine starter
>
> relay
>
>>>in the power distribution center.
>>>I failed to clarify in my earlier post that I get no action from the
>
> starter
>
>>>motor.
>>>Thanks
>>>D
>>>
>>>"D" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46a14eb6$0$30603$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>I have a 2002 Grand Cherokee, 4.7 V-8. Went to start it and only a small
>>>>click from under the hood. Jumping the battery was no joy.
>>>>First thing to check before I look for my manual?
>>>>Thanks
>>>>D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: 02 Won't Start- Addendum
 

You might want to price a factory service manual.

Charge it up good, then give it a load test.
Measure across the posts.
Turn on the lights for 10 minutes.
Measure again.

Pretty good at finding a surface charge where the voltage looks good
until you load it.

If this is the original battery, replace it. Sears sells nice SUV Die
Hards and Optimas...both of which work pretty good.

If there is even the tiniest bit of crud at your cable connects, buy a
cheap terminal cleaner brush.


D proclaimed:

> You guys are all great! I printed this out for future use Lon. Very good
> info.
> Problem solved, for now anyway. I put a deep charge on the battery and got
> a start. I redid every connection on the solenoid and prepped the cables for
> a new battery.
> Charging circuit seems to check out okay. With a 'guarded' thank you, I'll
> see how it goes. I might stop into Autozone just to confirm my readings that
> the charging system is working up to par.
> Thank you all again for your prompt and very informative help.
> D
>
> "Lon" <lon.stowell@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:GuydnaR4G9-osD_bnZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>There should be a +12 feed right from the battery to the solenoid
>>whether or not the key is on.
>>
>>This is the huge wire that carries way too much current to be switched
>>by the key, the starter relay etc. The solenoid is what switches this
>>high current 12 volts to the starter when you turn the key to start...it
>>is just a very large high current relay.
>>
>>Your ignition switch has two circuits that control the starter.
>>
>>The ground side of the ignition switch signal is routed through the
>>park/neutral switch on an automatic transmission. If that circuit is
>>open your starter relay will not close.
>>
>>The hot side of the ignition switch signal heads for the small starter
>>relay. The starter relay will send +12 to the starter solenoid when you
>>turn the switch to start...if none of the interlocks prevent this.
>>
>>Your solenoid always has +12 on it while the battery is connected. The
>>small +12 wire from the starter relay is used to switch the solenoid so
>>the high current 12 v goes to the starter. If you have a big sears or
>>similar screwdriver, you can turn on your solenoid by jumpering the big
>>red wire to the output to the starter. If that turns over the engine,
>>then one of the interlocks, the ignition switch, the start relay etc. is
>>the culprit. If you cannot turn the engine over with a direct jump
>>across the solenoid, you have a bad cable, which includes the ground
>>side of your battery.
>>
>>Common mistake in diagnosing is to check voltages from the connector at
>>the battery... need to use the posts themselves.
>>
>>Your problem sounds somewhat like an interlock, which can be a real bear
>>to isolate unless you have friends and a long diagnostic jumper wire or
>>take a spare starter relay apart and jump across it.
>>
>>However, check the big cabling first.
>>
>>With someone helping by turning the starter on, measure the voltages to
>>ground and to the starter solenoid large wire.
>>
>> From the ground post on the battery to the engine and then again to the
>>body, you should see well under 0.2 volts with the switch to start.
>>
>>Then check from the positive post to the solenoid, again with switch to
>>start, you should see well under 0.2 volts.
>>
>>Any point where you see more than 0.1 volt is a big red flag of a bad
>>cable or connection.
>>
>>
>>D proclaimed:
>>
>>
>>>All,
>>>I did a voltage check across the two connections on the strarter
>
> solenoid
>
>>>and have 12.5vdc with the key off. By looking in the manual, that should
>
> not
>
>>>have voltage until the key is turned to the start position. Is that
>
> right? I
>
>>>thought the negative side got it's ground through the engine starter
>
> relay
>
>>>in the power distribution center.
>>>I failed to clarify in my earlier post that I get no action from the
>
> starter
>
>>>motor.
>>>Thanks
>>>D
>>>
>>>"D" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>>news:46a14eb6$0$30603$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi All,
>>>>I have a 2002 Grand Cherokee, 4.7 V-8. Went to start it and only a small
>>>>click from under the hood. Jumping the battery was no joy.
>>>>First thing to check before I look for my manual?
>>>>Thanks
>>>>D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>