New jeep old engine
 

Anyone know if you can put a 4.0l inline 6 from an 93 jgc to a 2012 jgc?
Just curious. Would it be legal?

Anyone? Just curious.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

If you have to do an emmsions test every year, it'll likely fail... the pentastar is a decent engine, get a good programmer and you'll be surprised by it...

but the inspections is what would hold it back... nothing illegal about it so long as all the emmisions equipment is installed and all that nonsense...

if your going to put the work into it, it would have to be a built 4.0L, otherwise id put in a hemi...

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Hey CrazyWJ242,
When you say built, do you mean built from scratch with all new engine components?
Oddly , i wonder because I asked earlier whether the straight 6 is better than a v6 and another
senior member (04wjguy) suggested that the old engine is in fact better because 90 percent
of the torque for a 93-2006(i think) straight 6 is available from 1500 to 3200 rpm.
Interesting topic to say the least.
Honestly, I don't like an ALL aluminum engine, with just steel sleeves in the cylinder walls for safety.
I think that jeep is not appreciating that A JEEP IS A JEEP not a car. It's meant for off-roading not
high efficiency on the highway. I think jeep is forgetting what JEEPS are made for.
Am i wrong.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

You might want to look into the local laws a bit. From what I understand the engine you swap in must be of the same year or newer and meet all the requirements of the year of the engine that is swapped in...IE all emissions from the swapped motor must be present and functioning. You can't take out a 2011 engine and swap in a V8 from the 60's and ditch all the emissions.
I did a V6 swap into my 88 YJ from a 98. I had to install an OBD2 system and all the trimmings along with getting the computer reprogrammed to get it running with no codes.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

I see what you are saying but, what I mean is that you change the engine and
make sure all the emissions bs is in place as well.
I still don't like an all aluminum engine. Is engine weight such a big deal given the 93 grand cherokees
engine weight. That jeep does damn well if you ask me.
I just don't get it...
Take care

Re: New jeep old engine
 

I meant built, turned into a stroker, with all new internals and all of that...

these new Pentastar engines are something else, and they do offer more power than previous engines, its a matter of the track record... 4.0L are still running strong, and with a bit of work, their even better...

thats the only reason i would install one in it... or if there was something drastically wrong with the new one... but theres really not...

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Hey CrazyWJ242,
I had to look up what a stroker was, but i like it.
I guess we will see in time how the new engine does compared to the 4.0l inline.
I've read some articles how aluminum tends to bend under high stress conditions.
I like how they want to innovate the engine but i would have gone with the mds
with cast iron engine and aimed for having 90 % of the torque at 1500 to 3200.
Just my opinion.
And thanks for the info, I may one day do what you suggested for the i6.
Take care.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

yeah, what i had planned to do was go down to the southern states (North Carolina where i lived for 10 years) buy a old ZJ (like the 93 ZJ i bought) bring it up to New Brunswick (which i didn't) and build the motor into a 4.5L stroker (which i'll still do sometime)

but basically get a salt & rust free jeep, put all new suspension under it so it rides like new, and rebuild a motor so it runs like new... that would last a long while around here and be AWESOME

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Dude,
That would rock.
My 4l has 249 thousand kms, it runs well but needs a new valve cover seal,
leaks oil.
I love your idea though.
I think that jeeps are a vehical that are WAY underrated.
I mean, u should expect some repairs needed if you buy used.
I LOVE JEEPS.
HOPE they live forever.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

You can do anything if you have enough talent,money and time. Dropping an old 4.0 into a 2012 just isnt that simple. Your taking an expensive vehicle,tearing out a superior powerplant and drivetrain. The nag trans wont fit a 4.0 Even if you got a drivetrain installed now you have a vehicle that has lost all of its trac systems,abs,esp all because it was drive by wire. The days of swapping out powerplants are all but dead my friend. So now it will never pass a safety inspection or drive clean test. I love my old Jeeps and 4.0 just like yourself but what your considering just isnt practical. The pentastar is far superior in power,emissions and economy. You would be taking a huge step backwards and destroying a nice Jeep. Go drive a 2012 grand cherokee and try to convince yourself that your current 93 drives better.
Has Jeep forgotten its way?? Not with the grand cherokee. It was never targeted for off road use. Its a yuppie Jeep and always was. Sergio that runs Chrysler and Fiat is a huge Jeep fan.(wrangler) Notice the real Jeep still sits on a full frame with old school design. Grand Cherokee is targeted toward BMW owners etc.
The 4.0 as good as it was and is went the way of the dinosaur. Leave it where it belongs in tough old Jeeps.
The whole idea behind the Pentastar was to dump all the other 6 cylinder engines. Now we have one engine platform in all Chrysler products. Imagine the money saved.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Well, I can say i understand your point on replacing a 2012 engine with a 93 4.0.
I still think the new jeep engine should have been made like the old one.
SOLID STEEL. DURRABLE. The new inovative design is there because they
wanted to cut cost of gas consumption. Any real jeep owner doesn't buy a jeep because it's good on gas. Period.
I love my 4.0 straight six and always will. ITS Durrable.
My thoughts,
Take care.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

I agree with you fully. Problem is the market has changed. Just isnt enough REAL Jeep owners to back a product line. Also blame the govt and tree huggers for pushing the emissions and MPG. Personally I would like to see a modern inline 6 going into the Wrangler line. The Fiat V6 is powerful but its just not the same low end torque. We are stuck with it though.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

There is quite a bit of misinformation here but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion is that considering a 4.0L swap into a 2012 GC is pretty ridiculous. The 3.6L Pentastar IS NOT a Fiat powertrain whatsoever. It is 100% Chrysler and is rated one of Ward's ten best engines. Its a great powerplant.

Saying "modern inline 6" engine is almost an oxymoron. The 4L is basically a 1950s/1960s 4.2L design revamped through the years. I love it as well as I have it in my 03 TJ currenlty and have had it in practically every other Jeep made in the last 30 years whether it came factory or because I put it there (ex. 78 CJ)... But I would consider swapping in a 3.6L into a TJ before I'd consider a 4L into a 2012 GC. What is wrong with getting better performance and mileage? The 3.8L in the 07-2010 Wranglers belong in the recycling yard but the 3.6L is a totally different beast. Yes it does not have the same low end torque as the 4L but if you properly setup your Jeep with gearing (axles or tcase) this is not an issue. Unless you have personally offroaded a new GC with the Pentastar you don't really know how great it is in my opinion, and I have driven them.

I would strongly suggest not even considering a 4.0L swap into a 2012, but hell, enough money and time and its possible so if you do it I'd love to see pics.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Actually the misconception is that the Pentastar is 100% Chrysler. Its is 100% Fiat input and design that based that engine line. IS it built by Chrysler? Yep. Its built by chrysler for north american market. Its technology and valve timing design is all based on Fiat design. To replace an entire V6 engine line up in N.A. cars and replace with Italian engines isnt very smart marketing. Therefore you have a Chrysler Pentastar engine built by the american/mexican people.
When I get parts for 3.6 engine internals and they say Fiat or even Magneti Marelli its a good indicator that Fiat had some significant input into the Pentastar 3.6 Like I said thats a good thing though.
Look how well the 3.8 is doing in the Jeeps. It IS 100% Chrysler. Its also using up the worlds oil supply. LOL. 2 towed in with no oil so far this week and one more looking for LOF records for her seized engine. I say thank you Fiat.
I still miss my 4.0 regardless. The big mistake was replacing it with the 3.8 , the 3.6 is a big positive.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Il admit i posted the idea of a 93 -2012 jeep rubicon engine transfer but it
was purely speculative. I was just curious about workability.
Any how it has started some most interesting discussion if you ask me.
I also agree a trasfer case mod or trans mod could remedy torque.
Still i agree with missmyxj , Also , how much gas are you really going to save
with mds in a new jeep. Anyone know?? Note how often are you going to be shifting in
to that mode for fuel savings , I think it's a stupid waste of engineering unless your
talking really long drives or something. Also is mds automatic can it
just activate when it knows how much power you need? Anyone.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

MDS is all software run. Its running in the background. It does work well on the 2010 trucks and up. It will drop cylinders even around 60km/hr now. Its much more aggressive than the earlier versions. Only disadvantage is it gets a bit of exhaust drone since the exhaust is tuned for the frequency of 8 cylinders.
It can be turned off with the tow/haul button.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Not trying to be rude, but I would have to say the "misconception" may be on your part. The 3.6L Pentastar - originally called the Pheonix - is 100% Chrysler. I say this somewhat knowingly because my Chrysler facility built all of the prototypes in 2007/2008 before production in the USA and Mexico went into full swing. Neither the technology nor the valve timing design has anything to do with Fiat engineering. It was being built long before Fiat had anything to do with Chrysler (ie. January 2009).
And I would also have to disagree (hopefully) with the market having an issue of putting in Italian engine in a North American car because that is exactly what the 2013 Dodge Dart is getting along with Fiat's Multi-air valve system which will be integrated into other Chrysler engine - however NOT the 3.6L or 5.7L Hemi currently. Also on the Italian engine note, I sure think people wouldn't mind a nice Ferrari engine in their Chryslers either.

Out of curiousity, what "internal engine parts" come labelled with Fiat on them? I am not necessarily disagreeing since I am not 100% sure and don't want to speculate however it is likely only because they may be made by a Fiat subsidery like Magneti Marelli - who have been making components for Chrysler for many years. It would be like saying Ford is also Italian because they have Magneti Marelli components.... Or Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Mexican, etc....


But either way, at the end of the day my stance is that it wouldn't be a bad thing if it was a Fiat design... but... the 3.6L is not.

Oh, and to clear it up incase there was any misunderstanding - the MDS is only on Hemi's not the 3.6l Pentastar and its now called FuelSaver Technology or something like that.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Not rude at all. Its actually really interesting info. Funny how the info we get at the dealer level even from the higher ups at Chrysler isnt always accurate. :eyes: Not that it surprises me though. LOL. We were told from day one that the 3.6 was the result of Fiats input. After 20+ years of dealing with Chryslers ummm.... info I will take your word for it.

AS for engine parts I cant recall exactly what seals they were but we were replacing cam phasers again. Seals came with Magnetti Marelli packaging and the phasers are now coming with fiat bags in Chrysler boxes. Maybe Fiat is building the revised phasers??


I assumed the original poster was talking about the Hemi MDS but perhaps he thought the 3.6 used it?? It does work well in the newer Hemis. Im in the habit of hitting the fuel mileage average in vehicles at work. The numbers are without a doubt much better on the 2010 Hemis and up. Just had a 2008 Aspen with 8.5mpg average. OUCH. Thirsty Hemi that one. Usually they are around 12-13. Newer ones are up around 15-16 this time of year.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Hello again,
I think i need to clarify,
which new jeeps does mds apply to?
Ultimately, does mds make a real difference in fuel economy say when
driving to work for 30 mins.
Like instead of 6 cyls use 4 or whatever. I see MDS as a limited boost
unless your doing long drives where a 4 cyl would clean house.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Only the Hemi is using it. It needs it. The 3.6 doesnt need mds. Its not a slob like the Hemi. Now mind you the 3.6 I have checked in the Grand Cherokees are getting around 17mpg. Thats about the same as my 4.0 Cherokee used to get. The V6 engines just dont seem to do well in the heavy vehicles for mpg.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Color me curious,
What happens in a hemi equipped jeep when your or straight away doing 60 kms with mds active,
then you floor it, how long does it take the engine to give you all 8 clys ?

Re: New jeep old engine
 

You dont even notice it. Its back to all 8 a lot faster than you can move the gas pedal. Its only noticeable when it activates at a steady cruise. Only reason for that is the exhaust note changes. You wont notice the cylinders coming back in. Its that fast. Its a really nice,simple system that uses solenoids to control oil flow to the lifters. Google it and have a read. Its interesting. SO far since it came out I have only fixed one for an issue and it was a bad solenoid. Thats a pretty impressive track record IMO.
Short of the idiot light and slight exhaust note you wouldnt even know it was equipped. Its seamless.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Your not serious about the idiot oil light are you?
Thats way bad on a vehical thats that advanced.
Other wise it sounds pretty damn good.
I have to ask though , how much would you save on gas
in say a month of driving to work?

Any thoughts.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

Not an oil light...it has a economy light that comes on when the mds is active. Thats the idiot light I was referring to.

I've seen the new Hemis up around 18 mpg. Thats a lot compared to the 10-12 they got prior to about 2009.

As far as I have been told by Chrysler its about 2-4mpg in the real world with average driving on the 2010 and up. The earlier Hemis its only about 1 mpg if your lucky. Its not all the MDS on the newer ones though. Its a package thing. Other engine mods were also done. Valve timing etc.
Doesnt sound like much but in the car world its massive. Even 1 mpg is huge. 1 mpg for every Hemi truck sold. The amount of fuel saved is monstrous.
Take my 4.7 durango for instance. I just finished a little experiment last week. With my tires at 30 psi I averaged 15.1 mpg. Same trip,same conditions ran 4 times about 240 km. With a change in tire pressure to 38 my average went up to 17.6 Thats 2.5 mpg. Do the math. Thats around 100 klm per tank of fuel gain. Thats an extra trip and a half to work for me on the HWY which is the route I tested on. Of course this isnt dead accurate science kind of stuff but its an example of how much a couple of MPG can save you. It works out to around 64 dollars a month in fuel savings for me to gain 2.5 mpg.

Re: New jeep old engine
 

I realize this reply is many months old but i would say, you should not have one engine for all vehicals that you make. Thats crazy, a friend told me that the v6 jeep vs the v8 jeep (the v8 is the better option) because it doesn't have to work as hard to pull the jeep. This is assuming normal driving. It burned the same amount of gas for daily driving but if you need it, you have V8 power available.
It makes sense , a powerplant should be made to move the vehicle with ease. If the engine has trouble then its probably not strong enough to do the job.
My thoughts